Harvester Calculations

Discuss any general aspect of crafting in this forum.

Moderators: Crafting Forum Moderators, Forum Moderator

Rommel
Intermediate Crafter
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Harvester Calculations

Post by Rommel » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:10 am

So I made a spreadsheet (XLS) to do the calculations found HERE
But my estimates seem off by a good amount...

So I submit my spreadsheet for people to look at and figure out where I went wrong.

Fields the user can edit are in green
Things I want to calculate...
An estimated collection amount
Time left until a goal is reached
Display of estimated completion date and time

OK so how it is used...
Lets say you got a contract for 500k, you enter that in the resource needed field, then you place your harvesters and turn them on, you put in the actual extraction rate displayed, the percent buff you have, the start time, and finally the number of harvesters you have.

It now displays the estimated amount that should be extracted in a given amount of time and also an estimated time until the goal is reached.

What I do is when I place a harvester the start time I put in is the time at which point I receive the e-mail saying how many lots I have left.

I feel like I haven't explained this very well so if you have any questions just ask and I will try and answer them.

User avatar
Savacc
Architect & Shipwright Forum Moderator
Posts: 1211
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Savacc » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:16 am

One problem you will have is that harvesters, factories, resource spawns run on "server time" not "real time". Whenever the server goes down, for whatever reason, your harvesters, factories etc. stop producing.

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:20 am

What I can see you also multiply with 1.5 in D19. I updated the guide more than a month ago and took that out, the 50% bonus, which SOE gave us when they stopped the lot trading, was taken away with Chapter 5 but I had missed that until late last year, I am sorry for that. The new forumal looks like

Code: Select all

Units per day = BER * concentration * 60 * 24 * (Expertise) * (Entertainer buff)
If you change D19 to =F20*D20*(D21+1) does that help?

Also notice that if you read the value at the harvester's operate screen I believe all buffs are included, is that so?

/Zimoon

Tharek Tolemac
Intermediate Crafter
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:48 am

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Tharek Tolemac » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:51 am

Indeed. I use such a formula to calculate when the Hopper will be full. Save some travels to far off harvesters.

If you use the REAL KG Value from the harvester, you can calculate the daily production very accurate by the following formula:
KG Value * 16000/11 = Production per day.

Actually, if there are no server downtimes, that calculates the time for a full hopper on a range of maybe 30 minutes, even it has to run around one week for a full hopper. For example, if it is ore and the spot low.

Regards,
Tharek

Edit: Additionally, you can calculate the estimated output by that.
For example: If you target an amount of 2 Mio Units and the type of resource aprox. last for 7 days, I normally place harvesters until the calculated daily production in total is at 300k. (0,3 *7 = 2,1 Mio)

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:46 am

I might be tired or not properly caffeinated but what is "16000/11"?

If you have an easier way to calculate the daily yield I am very interested in replacing the current formula in the guide with an easier one, or having them both.

/Z

Laidbacca
Apprentice Crafter
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Laidbacca » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:23 pm

I'm pretty sure the 50% bonus is still applied, also the harvy's still produce whilst server reboot is happening. One thing that will upset the timing is a server crash, this can have the effect of being similar to a server roll back where quests completed/crafted goods etc are lost, this should also affect harvester uptime.

You also need to watch in what way you apply the possible percentage bonus's as putting them in the wrong order can throw the calculations of by quite a bit. BER +50% (lot trade bonus) +5%(ent bonus) +30% (trader bonus) divide by spawn % = AER x 1440 = total resources per 24 hours. I'm waiting on server reboot finishing atm but will check this asap after restart as i'm 99% sure this was the way i worked it out a month or two ago.

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:47 pm

I am positive the 50% is gone as I in December were harvesting and was surprised over the 2/3 yield I got. Asked around and everyone said it was gone with Chapter 5 when the devs added the expertize and Harvest Faire. That also makes up for the numbers I figured at the time.

No, the order does not matter at all since there is no minus nor plus involved. Math rules are simple, as long as only division and multiplication is involved they can be thrown in in any order, as they indeed are replaceable: You can replace a *2 with /0.5 , or replace a /4 with *0.25. As soon as you add in plus and minus, which has lower precedence, you must start using parentheses to keep track of the order; each embraced expression can come in any order though.

You really don't do BER + X% but you do BER * 1.x since X% is just a human readable way to express multiplication. a 33% addition to Z is written Z * 1.33. But 33% of Z is of course X * 0.33, a fraction of X. Everything becomes easier with % if you only use multiplication :)

I think I have a clue to the 16000/11 though. That is quite close to 24*60 which is the number of minutes a day. I am still curious why this number and not 24*60 is better? Should the servers run on some peculiar "galaxy time"?

/Zimoon

Laidbacca
Apprentice Crafter
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Laidbacca » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:32 pm

k Kette just came back up, i logged in my non trader who has a BER 14 heavy down on some alum at 67%, he is non ent buffed, the AER on the harv is 14.14 that means the 50% is still being applied. Working out the extraction rate (the way i get my head round it:) ) it comes in at 14.07 ( 21 x 67% ) the slight discrepancy i think is down to the % spawn being nearer to 67.35%.

K this is very interesting, a GTP harv with 18 BER down on 76% is giving an AER of 20.65, this is on a trader toon with the 30% expertise, working out the maths on that means without an ent buff and no 50% bonus from a lot swap then the BER should be 23.4, that means the AER should be approx 17.7, now that doesnt add up. I work out the same using the +50% and +30% and it still isn't adding up. However just adding the 50% bonus is giving the displayed amount, this is leading me to suspect that the trader expertise bonus isn't working, can someone check this ingame to verify, or point out where i'm going wrong? :)

Oops found the discrepancy, the GTP harv is BER 14, adding that into the sums now.

K the GTP harv is spot on, BER 14 with the BER being adjusted by 4.2 due to trader expertise = 18.2 AER, this is then having the 50% lot bonus being applied, equalling the 20.65 approx. Looking at various harvs placed near each other they all have a slightly different AER yet are on the same % spawn of resource, this to me more or less confirms to me that the spawn % are working down to 1 or 2 decimal places ie..76.29 etc.

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:20 pm

Laidbacca wrote:k Kette just came back up, i logged in my non trader who has a BER 14 heavy down on some alum at 67%, he is non ent buffed, the AER on the harv is 14.14 that means the 50% is still being applied. Working out the extraction rate (the way i get my head round it:) ) it comes in at 14.07 ( 21 x 67% ) the slight discrepancy i think is down to the % spawn being nearer to 67.35%.

Really interesting, this is a non-trader toon. I will do the same experiment on Zimoon, who is not a trader, and see what life at Gorath looks like.

K this is very interesting, a GTP harv with 18 BER down on 76% is giving an AER of 20.65, this is on a trader toon with the 30% expertise, working out the maths on that means without an ent buff and no 50% bonus from a lot swap then the BER should be 23.4, that means the AER should be approx 17.7, now that doesnt add up. I work out the same using the +50% and +30% and it still isn't adding up. However just adding the 50% bonus is giving the displayed amount, this is leading me to suspect that the trader expertise bonus isn't working, can someone check this ingame to verify, or point out where i'm going wrong? :)

Oops found the discrepancy, the GTP harv is BER 14, adding that into the sums now.

K the GTP harv is spot on, BER 14 with the BER being adjusted by 4.2 due to trader expertise = 18.2 AER, this is then having the 50% lot bonus being applied, equalling the 20.65 approx. Looking at various harvs placed near each other they all have a slightly different AER yet are on the same % spawn of resource, this to me more or less confirms to me that the spawn % are working down to 1 or 2 decimal places ie..76.29 etc.

Lots of words here, but I read you as a BER 14 on a 76% spot gives 20.65 read at the operate screen, is that right? That also sounds as 14 * 0.76 * 1.3 * 1.5 = 20.748 and some hidden decimals makes for 20.65.

I must say I am puzzled. My So'ma, MDE, doesn't get the 1.5 but I will try again. I can mention that I had trouble with him before, more than a year ago I had trouble with him when he did not get the 50% bonus as he should. He is an unlock slot by the way, but that shouldn't matter I guess. Next question is then why so many people say the bonus was taken away, I need to ask more guys on this one.
In red

/Zimoon

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:22 pm

Just a short question, Laidbacca, have these harvies been re-deeded and put down again after Ch 5 or do you have the statically placed at the same spot?

/Z

Laidbacca
Apprentice Crafter
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Laidbacca » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:28 pm

Yip by my calculations it is still being applied once the harv is being operated, it would be news to me if it had been removed, resource quantities being harvested have allways been within my estimates when retrieving resources. The 30% (trader) and 5% (ent) bonus look like they are applied to the harv when placed, the 50% is then applied on harvester operation, that should give a 50% bonus stacked on top of the 30% and 5% once the harv is placed and not to the harvs base rate.

EDIT IN.I don't do static mining as it generally ain't productive enough for the resources i need.

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:42 pm

I have browsed the official SWG/SOE forum for a while and there has been some questions on this, some seems to have lost the 50% but not that many. Consensus seems to be it still applies and then I am bugged with So'ma :(
I also need to look into who I trust as my friends :twisted:

/Z

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:09 pm

You are perfectly right, Laidbacka, I withdraw everything I said and I stand corrected. I have once again added the 50% to the guide.

So'ma got 50% this time, read at the Actual Rate. Now I will just look into this is actually what he gets in the end too. More than a year ago I had several occasions when he did not got the bonus on some of the harvesters placed at the same area, really weird. At that time I though it had to do with a macro I run that brought up the status window before I opened the harvester. I never figured it out though and then I took a break from everything so ...

Now I need to go and find some of my friends, they have some stuff to explain for me :twisted:

But I should bash myself too as I believed them too easily. But that time, about three weeks ago I really did not get the 50% so I will definitely watch out now. And take notes.

/Zimoon

Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Zimoon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:20 pm

Rommel, I found your error. You are adding the 35% buff twice, both in D14 and in D19. Take it away from D14 since it do not belong there logically.

/Zimoon

Rommel
Intermediate Crafter
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:14 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Re: Harvester Calculations

Post by Rommel » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:43 pm

That was it.

I just need to reorganize all the calculator functions now so everything is clearer.

A calculator would be a nice feature for SWGAide, I think I'll have to go make a detailed post over there :P

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest