Beginner's Guide For Traders

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Zimoon
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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Zimoon » Fri May 09, 2008 6:44 am

Thanks, I will add that Traders can do some of the collections, certainly the "clicky" collections. However, I don't have a list of what is appropriate but if you provide such a list I will happily include it.

/Zimoon

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Angabar » Fri May 09, 2008 12:46 pm

Let's see...

This is all based on personal experience, if anyone wants to correct me or add anything else, you are welcome to do so.

Easy to do collections with small xp reward:

The Collector in Mos Eisley starts the three tutorial quests, the 2nd of which gives the xp reward. All involve a bit of fighting, but the enemies are a mere cl5-6. After completing those collections you gain access to new ones from the collector. These collections all involve combat to my knowledge (i.e. mainly kill quota collections).

The "Wayfar Spy Collection" is another easy collection though it involves a minimum of fighting against cl19 npcs. You need four pieces and since every spy seems to drop one piece and the shuttleport of Wayfar is close by you can be done in a minute or two.

Then there are the resource gathering collections: "Faux Real", "Prime Cuts", "Exceptional Egg" and "Humerus Collectibles". Most involve fighting but since the pieces can be found even on the lowest creatures and most traders need at least one of the natural resources you can easily finish at least one of these. The eggs are another story, you will have to search lairs for it. There is supposed to be another collection for exceptional milk, but i didn't find any myself (milked about four dozen eopies) so i'd not recommend it. A possible way to complete these collections is to concentrate on just one resource and trade the excess of collection pieces you get with other players for pieces you still need (for example pristine hides for reusable bones or fine cuts of meat).

Easy to do collections with title/schematic/misc reward:

A small hint: some of these collections require you to travel to different planets and visit cantinas, starports, museums and theatres. While you are there be sure to check all rooms of the building, you may find a piece for a collection you are not collecting at the moment but maybe will at some point in the future. This way you won't have to travel there again. In the options menu "misc" you will find an option to turn on the names for static objects, this helps greatly in spotting a collection piece.

The "What a Piece of Junk collection". The pieces for this collections can be found at various starports throughout the galaxy without fighting. The reward is the ability to summon an instant travel vehicle which can be used on any planet to jump from the wilderness to any shuttleport on the planet (can't be used inside of cities, near points of interest and certain structures). This is a very useful toy!

The "Hanging Light Style 2". This collection consists of travelling to cantinas on different planets, no fighting. The reward is a 2-uses-schematic (crafting one of these starts a crafting quota collection for which you need to craft 20 of these lights).

"The Reel Life, "Nabooian Angler" and "Master Angler" each just reward you with a title, but completing all three also complets the "Fish Collector". This collection rewards you with a 2-uses-schematic for a fish tank. Crafting one of these starts another crafting quota collection for which you will need to craft 25 of these. These collections are mainly for people with patience and time since it involves a lot of fishing (the parts needed for the schematic have to be fished as well!). The reward for the crafting quota is said to be a large amount of xp so it may be worth the effort (especially if you are in to fishing).

The "Force Shui - Pitch" and "Force Shui - Roll" require you to visit museums, theatres and hotels on different planets. Completing these two also complets the "Master of Force Shui" which rewards you with a title and new options to move your decorations (yaw, roll, pitch).

Not so easy to do collections with medium xp reward:

My trader was cl80, equipped with the Katarn Armor from "Avenging Morrt", the cl50 Trader's Friend and unbuffed when i started with these quests. The better your equipment the easier this whole thing will be. You should be able to do it on a lower level if your equipment is the best you can get for your level, though that's only a guess. Also being neutral makes it a lot easier, since many parts can be found inside of rebel or imperial compounds.

Four of these collections can be done soloing (some parts of the battle and assault armor are heavily guarded with cl80+ npcs and sometimes even cl90 elite). Some of the enemies you have to fight include cl35 elites and up to ~cl70 npcs. Collecting a piece usually alerts any nearby aggressive npc (and sometimes even neutrals) within ~10m of the object (just an educated guess) so you will want to get rid of those before collecting. Before you think of bringing a friend and his combat toon be aware that this whole thing takes a lot of time. So unless your friend needs these collections as well you should just call him in when you really need help to get a piece (a few basic camps with shuttle beacons should come in handy).

Keep in mind that apart from the fighting these require a lot of travelling since the pieces of all six collections are scattered throughout the galaxy, which includes remote planets like yavin4 or endor (but not add-on specific planets like mustafar or kashyyyk) which offer no travel grid because there are no player cities. You should take the advise i gave in the above section since it counts for these collections even more. You visit some very remote locations while collecting the pieces and you can find at least another piece of collection in almost all of them (especially in POI locations).

Lost Imperial Shock Trooper Armor Collection

Lost Imperial Stormtrooper Armor Collection

Lost Imperial Scout Trooper Armor Collection

Lost Rebel Assault Armor Collection

Lost Rebel Battle Armor Collection

Lost Rebel Marine Armor Collection

Well, so much from me for the time being. If i find anything else i'll let you know ;)

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Whist34 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:01 pm

A question on Quality and Experimentation:

If someone is making something with sub-components, do those sub-components affect the end quality of the item or the experimentation?

I'm trying to plan a run of Elite Mineral Harvestors. The schematic requires 3 sub-components that can benefit from their own experimentation results. Will the qulaity of those crafted sub-components have any effect on the BER or Storage Capacity of the harvestor - or perhaps the expermentation when making the harvestor?
Or do I just need to focus on the quality of the raw resources required when making the final harvestor?

Elite Mineral Mining Installation (Summary)
Extraction Rate: HR 25%, SR 25%, UT 50% - Hopper Size: MB 33%, UT 66%
Chemical 1200
Metal 3300
Steel 1200
Wall Modules 21
Generator Turbine (Identical) 6 - UT 100%
Small Structural Storage Unit (Identical) 18 - UT 100%
Advanced Ore Mining Unit (Identical) 2 - HR 25%, SR 25%, UT 50%


I know this question has more applications than just this example. If you can discuss it here or point me towards a guide that answers this I would really appreciate it.

Thank you

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by panino76 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:37 pm

Whist34 wrote:A question on Quality and Experimentation:

If someone is making something with sub-components, do those sub-components affect the end quality of the item or the experimentation?

I'm trying to plan a run of Elite Mineral Harvestors. The schematic requires 3 sub-components that can benefit from their own experimentation results. Will the qulaity of those crafted sub-components have any effect on the BER or Storage Capacity of the harvestor - or perhaps the expermentation when making the harvestor?
Or do I just need to focus on the quality of the raw resources required when making the final harvestor?

Elite Mineral Mining Installation (Summary)
Extraction Rate: HR 25%, SR 25%, UT 50% - Hopper Size: MB 33%, UT 66%
Chemical 1200
Metal 3300
Steel 1200
Wall Modules 21
Generator Turbine (Identical) 6 - UT 100%
Small Structural Storage Unit (Identical) 18 - UT 100%
Advanced Ore Mining Unit (Identical) 2 - HR 25%, SR 25%, UT 50%


I know this question has more applications than just this example. If you can discuss it here or point me towards a guide that answers this I would really appreciate it.

Thank you
You may want to post this in the structure trader forum, anyway, for harvesters in particular, the only subcomponents you have to experiment (and use high quality materials for them) are Ore mining Unit for Minerals, Turbo fluidic pumps for flora and so on.

Walls, turbine and Small structures storage modules can be crafted with crappy resources.

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Zimoon
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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Zimoon » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:21 pm

To that I can add the general answer:

In some cases the quality of the sub components, matter, in other it does not.

It is not much of an answer ;)
Once upon a time many, many more sub components actually mattered.
Now parts of crafting is dulled down and which are important and which are not is up to the trader making a personal list of his/her experience in that matter. Fortunately most trader specific forum have such lists in their FAQ or guides. If not at this site you'll find them at the official site, the stickied threads (and hopefully the moderators of the professions at this site fill the holes they find ;) ).

/Zimoon

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Re:

Post by Whist34 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:38 pm

Zimoon wrote:8 - Power Crafting

Every 10 Experimenting skill points give another box to spend at the experimenting screen. A number of extra boxes can be achieved with expertise, skill tapes, apron, Personal Craft Enhancement Device (Artisan only), etc., on top of the boxes that come with the profession. Currently the cap is 13 boxes (Shipwrights have more for some experimentation lines).

The Experimentation Skill increases the probability to get the better outcomes each experiment, or "dice roll" as it is commonly named. It is supposed to be capped at 125, plus the 10 points from the Expertize tree (plus 10 extra on Artisan for Humans).

Add to the Experimentation skill with for example Bespin Port, SEAs but not PUPs, city specialization Research Center, and Expertize points. The Bespin Port and city specialization seems to be added to the skill beyond the hard cap, as if they have their own line of skill points, but for SEAs there is the hard cap (pre-NGE SEAs and new SEAs are equal in all ways).

Each dice roll gives a random outcome ranging from Critical Failure to Amazing Success, that adds to the initial result.

Critical Successes, also named Lucky Breaks, stem solely from Luck and gives slightly better outcome than Amazing Success.
The statement that "the Experimentation Skill increases the probability to get the better outcomes" confuses me.

Here are the in-game tooltips for the trader artisan skills I have:
Artisan Assembly: This skill mod increases the chance of succeeding when crafting general items.
Artisan Experimentation Roll Increase (from expertise points): Increases the experimentation roll by a percentage for Artisan items.
Artisan Experimentation: This skill mod directly affects how many experimentation points you receive when crafting general items.

Shouldn't the guide indicate that the Artisan Assembly skill increases the probablity for better outcomes? Or is the chance to succeed mentioned in the tooltip referring to something else? Or is the in-game tooltip wrong?


(Edit) Just to summarize: (How I interpret these things to work.)

Assembly Skill - Gives a chance to start with a higher initial experimental effectiveness, but does not affect the length of the experimental effectiveness bar. Assembly skill is affected by Pyollian Cake (+15) (eaten before clicking the assembly button), and being in a Manufacturing Center. There are equipment and clothing buffs, and entertainer buffs for this skill, however there are no entertainer buffs for Artisan Assembly.

Experimentation Skill - Determines how many rolls of the dice (experimentation points) you have (1 roll for every 10 points). Also affects success chances. Experimentation rolls are affected by Bespin Port (+25) (drink before each roll of the dice), being in a Research Center, and the Luck attribute. There are equipment and clothing buffs, and entertainer buffs for this skill (Luck attribute).

Experimentation Roll Increase Skill - An expertise modifier to the Experimentation Skill that only affects the success chance during experimentation not assembly.

Experimental Effectiveness Bar - Length is determined soley by the quality of resources + any expertise resource modifier. The length of this bar determines your max attainable experimental effectiveness.

Crafting Stations and Tools - Possibly have an effect on the rolls for both assembly and experimentation.


If anyone can clarify or confirm my thoughts or answer my questions I would appreciate it.

Thank you
Last edited by Whist34 on Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Re:

Post by Zimoon » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:20 pm

Whist34 wrote:
Zimoon wrote:8 - Power Crafting

Every 10 Experimenting skill points give another box to spend at the experimenting screen. A number of extra boxes can be achieved with expertise, skill tapes, apron, Personal Craft Enhancement Device (Artisan only), etc., on top of the boxes that come with the profession. Currently the cap is 13 boxes (Shipwrights have more for some experimentation lines).

The Experimentation Skill increases the probability to get the better outcomes each experiment, or "dice roll" as it is commonly named. It is supposed to be capped at 125, plus the 10 points from the Expertize tree (plus 10 extra on Artisan for Humans).

Add to the Experimentation skill with for example Bespin Port, SEAs but not PUPs, city specialization Research Center, and Expertize points. The Bespin Port and city specialization seems to be added to the skill beyond the hard cap, as if they have their own line of skill points, but for SEAs there is the hard cap (pre-NGE SEAs and new SEAs are equal in all ways).

Each dice roll gives a random outcome ranging from Critical Failure to Amazing Success, that adds to the initial result.

Critical Successes, also named Lucky Breaks, stem solely from Luck and gives slightly better outcome than Amazing Success.
The statement that "the Experimentation Skill increases the probability to get the better outcomes" confuses me.

Here are the in-game tooltips for the trader artisan skills I have:
Artisan Assembly: This skill mod increases the chance of succeeding when crafting general items.
Artisan Experimentation Roll Increase (from expertise points): Increases the experimentation roll by a percentage for Artisan items. Artisan Experimentation: This skill mod directly affects how many experimentation points you receive when crafting general items.

Shouldn't the guide indicate that the Artisan Assembly skill increases the probablity for better outcomes? Or is the chance to succeed mentioned in the tooltip referring to something else? Or is the in-game tooltip wrong?

Thank you
First off, there are many texts in the game that are confusing and in some cases directly misleading, thence, always read them with some caution.

So, while the difference between Assembly and Experimentation always have been under discussion (since no red name has ever confirmed or denied anything) the general consensus is that Assembly has its main impact in the initial assembly phase, when you click Assemble (plus applications such as the probability for a socket), while Experimentation has two applications, every 10th point grants another experimentation box up the hard cap, and it has an impact on the experimentation dice roll together with some other unknown parameters.

I admit there is no huge statistics ever made, at least never publicly posted, that would verify the impact Experimentation has on the dice roll, or if it has not. However, the majority of the seasoned crafters would say it has. A quite verbose group, mainly at the official SWG/SOE Munitions forum board, do puke at that idea, I am well aware of that.

Today we are at the situation where neither side can claim to have facts at hand, that is true. Neither statistical fact in either direction, nor any statements by the Devs, not in 6 years have they said anything. Some players say they have done lengthy testing but their proofs are not publicized or they are not bullet proof, at least not to a statistician. But too many knowledgeable crafters to be neglected would rather eat Bantha poodoo than publicly say Experimentation has no effect on the dice roll ;)

As soon as I get more time I will bring up a low level Trader and try to gather some statistics, but it won't happen in a near future so anybody can step in. Just you publicize the data sheets for public scrutinizing.

Notice that the phrasing about the Experimentation from the Expertize tree does actually mention an increase on the dice roll, but it also gives you another 10 points worth another experimentation box.

What we also know is that Bespin Port and Research City specialization both adds to the Experimentation skill and have a direct and very much noticeable impact on the dice roll (but not on the number of boxes). It would be funny if the basic skill had not.

Thanks for asking though.

/Zimoon

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Whist34 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:41 pm

Thank you Zimoon.

I updated my other post with a summary, just to help with my own sanity the next time I try to understand all of this =)

Thanks again

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Re: Re:

Post by Zimoon » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:25 am

Whist34 wrote:(Edit) Just to summarize: (How I interpret these things to work.)

Assembly Skill - Gives a chance to start with a higher initial experimental effectiveness, but does not affect the length of the experimental effectiveness bar. Assembly skill is affected by Pyollian Cake (+15) (eaten before clicking the assembly button), and being in a Manufacturing Center. There are equipment and clothing buffs, and entertainer buffs for this skill, however there are no entertainer buffs for Artisan Assembly.

The "higher initial effectiveness" affects the outcome of the assembling, where Great and Amazing Success has the same value and together with perfect resources will grant you an initial value of 29%. Assembly skill of 160 "grants" you a socket, if applicable.

Advanced Assembly from Entertainers is supposed to address Shipwright.


Experimentation Skill - Determines how many rolls of the dice (experimentation points) you have (1 roll for every 10 points). Also affects success chances. Experimentation rolls are affected by Bespin Port (+25) (drink before each roll of the dice), being in a Research Center, and the Luck attribute. There are equipment and clothing buffs, and entertainer buffs for this skill (Luck attribute).

Luck may give you a Lucky Strike (also called Critical Success, which has a value slightly better than Amazing. But this is outside of the dice roll and they are not interconnected.

Many seasoned crafters swear at it that Luck gives a noticeable better outcome while experimenting. This is however not confirmed by any publicized tests and is supported only by the player's merits.


Experimentation Roll Increase Skill - An expertise modifier to the Experimentation Skill that only affects the success chance during experimentation not assembly.

Experimental Effectiveness Bar - Length is determined soley by the quality of resources + any expertise resource modifier. The length of this bar determines your max attainable experimental effectiveness.

Crafting Stations and Tools - Possibly have an effect on the rolls for both assembly and experimentation.


If anyone can clarify or confirm my thoughts or answer my questions I would appreciate it.

Thank you
In red

Zimoon

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by wrackspurt » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:11 pm

I know there's a guide for mining, which I practically have memorized, but is there any guides for mining on Mustafar or with MK3 droids. Tips, tricks, hints, etc.?

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Zbignew » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:18 am

If you mean mining with harvies or droids, there's no secrets because you can only mine by sampling. Get buffed and set a macro, if you need large quantities - open 10 accounts, buy 10 pc's, rinse and repeat above instructions. Seriously tho, the devs have been pestered for some sort of droid or other harvester for Mustafar (land of primo resources) but so far no love.

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by wrackspurt » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:07 pm

That's actually a relief. All this time I had this nagging suspicion that I was missing out because I never go to Mustafar. SOE strikes again.

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by fridge33sam » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:49 am

Just a friendly fyi/shared resource. This is the best place for all your helper-monkey needs: http://www.swgpets.com/wiki/Helper_Monkey
Iron Chef Slakkarr CEO, Fishboi Industries

Guild Joker Nagurra CFO, Wookhunter Enterprises

All Vendors located in Ft Revolt, 800 Meters from the Rebel Outpost on Rori, Flurry Server.

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Ten-Tonne » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:51 am

Fantasic guide Zimoon!

I'm still re-reading it to find new things, even printed a hard copy. It has helped bring me up-to-date after a long break from the game.

One little thing that I think might be helpful to change:

"All vendors fall asleep at server resets and somebody must "open the shop" to wake them up again."

When I first read this I was a bit shocked and confused.
I followed up with some of the links in the OP and came to the following. Is it correct?

On Reset:
- Vendored items are removed from the global bazzar search.
- Vendors will no longer show up on the over-head map.
- Vendors will no longer show up on the planetary map.
All of these problems are fixed as soon as someone, anyone, opens the vendor to view its contents.

If the above is correct, I feel this event is somewhat critical as it would effectively remove your entire business from the marketplace until you actually logged in to fix the problem. Perhaps some bold font or coloring along with a detailed explaination would be better suited. The current line is very vague.

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Re: Beginners Guide For Traders

Post by Zimoon » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:19 pm

Ten-Tonne wrote:Fantasic guide Zimoon!

Thanks :)

I'm still re-reading it to find new things, even printed a hard copy. It has helped bring me up-to-date after a long break from the game.

One little thing that I think might be helpful to change:

"All vendors fall asleep at server resets and somebody must "open the shop" to wake them up again."

When I first read this I was a bit shocked and confused.
I followed up with some of the links in the OP and came to the following. Is it correct?

On Reset:
- Vendored items are removed from the global bazzar search.
- Vendors will no longer show up on the over-head map.
- Vendors will no longer show up on the planetary map.
All of these problems are fixed as soon as someone, anyone, opens the vendor to view its contents.

Yes, that is correct. The first time the vendors load into the world again they will appear at the mentioned locations. Sad but true.

If the above is correct, I feel this event is somewhat critical as it would effectively remove your entire business from the marketplace until you actually logged in to fix the problem. Perhaps some bold font or coloring along with a detailed explaination would be better suited. The current line is very vague.

I will see to it, thanks for the feedback.
/Zimoon

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