harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

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Trixie9819
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harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:30 pm

Ok, several related questions that I can't seem to find firm answers on (at least not that I can understand)

BER, someone somewhere has to have figured out how much per minute (or hour and I can divide by 60) a harvester can get based on the BER and concentration. I know somewhere I've seen something, somehow but for the life of me I can't find it now.

Hand sampling, how does the system figure out success/failure, and the amount found each time? I know it changes for a certain +/- percentage each sample loop, but what is the percent? I'd like to figure out a way to calculate a rough estimate of what my girls would get, and then add in expertise and resource pet thingie. I also want to figure out if luck actually does let you get a 'high quantity sample' or if it's just my imagination.

Basically, I want to know how much time I'll have to make my girls sample on musty to get XXX amount of YYY resources with ZZZ percentage concentration. Why? because I'm weird like that, as long as I know how it works I'm happy.

Trixie9819
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Duh, found the first part in the 'beginner's guide' I KNEW I'd seen it somewhere. Now I just need to figure out the hand sampling part.

Zimoon
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:35 am

I have not set any real values on that one, just people having done tests over several hours at some concentration to figure out that they do as well as an elite, or a lot better.

What you can do, if you like that kind of math, is to do several such test runs, different concentrations but also with toons at different skill levels. Use /logchat (or is it /chatlog ?) to save the system messages to file. Parse that file to get the numbers, do the sorting, huffing, and buffing and you should have some numbers and also the statistical distribution function used for the "randomness".

/Zimoon

Paria
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Paria » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:40 pm

Someone knows a guide about "Hand Sampling" please?
Thanks in advance !

PS: I have seen a player with a pet (a voritor) that gave him a buff of +50% on resource sample.
What expertise into Beast Master is required to handle such a pet?
Arnh Stardust (Armorsmith or Shipwright) & Mamaria (Droids and Beasts crafter) in ORION on Lok (Chimaera server).

Tech Twin
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Tech Twin » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:59 pm

The skill is called "resource Scavenger". It is a collection reward. It requires 1 skill point in beastmaster and any quality pet. You simple have your pet out while hand sampling and every now and then when you get the "high concetration" popup there will be a third option to have your pet gather the reources. Do this twenty times and you get the ability to teach all your pets this skill.

Then simply loop a macro to keep the buff going (lasts 15 minutes normally) and you get the 50% bonus. The added advantage is you can afk sample without scooting yourself into the lava from /stand also.

I would be glad to supply some data here... I just need to go back and check my concentration that I'm currently sampling on musty.


NOTE: while it only takes 1 point to use the pet I've noticed that if the petts happiness falls too low, the looping macro to activate the scavenger command stops working. I'm not sure if this is a coincidence or a function of pet happiness vs. willingness to obey commands. When I had just 1 point in BM I had to use an ungodly amount of food to keep the happy enough to be effective. using 3 extra expertise points for pet happiness makes a HUGE difference in my results. But again, this is unconfirmed, just my observation.
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Paria
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Paria » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:15 pm

That you a lot for this precious info!
The next time that I respec I will give a try, dropping between 1 to 4 points into BM expertise :D
Arnh Stardust (Armorsmith or Shipwright) & Mamaria (Droids and Beasts crafter) in ORION on Lok (Chimaera server).

Trixie9819
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:53 pm

In a month or so when I am done with my overtime, I will do a full study on TCP with comparisons of resource % and level of trader and expertise settings and the resource pet. Since I will be having many traders over there, I can do it and at the least I can delete some to start over to double check the numbers.

But it will be a while, I have a few other things on my plate first (after overtime) including a comprehensive list of factory crate sizes and some pretty intense BM pet making on Starsider. But on the other hand, some of the numbers can come from the traders on starsider as I sample on musty for the BM supplies I will need.

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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:47 pm

Most of my Traders have full sampling expertize. That will drain their action and make them stand up and stop sampling at times. It is not good of course and we are many that have nagged SOE to fix that, but the net yield is still better than cheating gout on that last expertize point. However, standing up and continuing sampling in a while makes the toon to drift away from the original spot, quite a distance in a few hours. However, my macro takes care of everything.

My macro for one of those toons I occasionally leave at Mustafar, poor guy, looks like this and is named my_sample:

Code: Select all

/follow zimite;
/pause 2;
/sample;
/pause 12;
/ui action defaultButton;
/pause 1;
/ui action petToolbarSlot3;
/macro my_sample;
My pet is a CL 1 mite and is called Zimite. When I bring him (how to you tell gender at an insect?) out, the first thing I do is to command him to stay, and this is important. Now I will explain the lines one by one:
  1. /follow Zimite will keep the toon within a few meters from where Zimite stays put, not drifting away too far, otherwise this line makes nothing
  2. /pause 2 to let the toon move towards Zimite before next line
  3. /sample in the case the toon had stopped sampling, otherwise no action
  4. /pause 12 to let the sampling continune, or let the toon regenerate action if drained
  5. /...defaultbutton will dismiss any popup dialog about better concentrations
  6. /pause 1 just in case there is some lag
  7. /... petToolbarSlot will trigger the 15 minute buff, if not run out yet this does nothing
  8. loop the macro
As you see this macro is on a 15 second loop so not much time is wasted if sampling is stopped when action runs out. At times it is looped a second time before regenerated.

Usually the resource scavenger is at the 4th button (slot 3 since they are counted from 0) but the mileage may vary. Because nothing happens when triggering the button if the buff is already applied you do not need to have numerous macros doing different things. This one is simple and neat and at least it works for me :)

If you are a kind person and also wants to feed the poor creature, put a crate of his favorite pet food at the common toolbar and run a second macro with a one hour pause or something like that.

Good luck
/Zimoon

Trixie9819
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:46 pm

I never thought to use the pet to 'stay' to keep them in one place. I recently figured out (on my own, hehe) that if you do the 'default button' line every 30 seconds or so (however long one cycle of sampling is for your toon) then at most they miss less than one sample. But that amount of time also lets them recover action and makes it much less often that they stand up in the first place. I left the girls running on Naboo for over 18 hours and my test case moved about 50 meters total. (as opposed to 500 meters or more with the /stand every sample loop)

I see the benefit of having the pet stay/follow part and the shorter loop if you have the pet, that makes sense to me. I'll probably steal this and use it for my testing, since it seems to give the best flexibility between afk macro and actual resource gathering. I know that doing any type of research like this while AT the keyboard will not give accurate numbers because r/l, children, bio breaks, phone calls, etc. etc.

Thanks for the tips, I'll see what I can do in the way of temporary pets to 'anchor' them. Actually, I just need ONE pet and have all the girls target that one pet. I have that much already. Or I will by friday night when I can set this up.

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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Zimoon » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:16 am

True, one pet is enough, but only one of them can use that pet as a buff-pet.

Have fun ;)

/Zimoon

Tech Twin
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Tech Twin » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:13 pm

Hey Z, I used to use the macro you're using but discovered that I would miss many a sampling chance due to the /follow command restricting the kneeling of sampling. As you kneel you move back a little and if this falls outside the /follow range it would skip the sampling cycle. My fix was this.

Code: Select all

/sample;
/pause 8;
/stand;
/ui action defaultButton;
/pause 2;
/follow Tipper;
/pause 2;
/stopfollow;
/pause 4;
/m sampleT
I use a 16 sec loop because my comp tends to lag a bit more than most. Incorporating the /stand insures that I never run out of action. The action bar fully regenerates by the start of the next cycle. So, I never miss a sampling cycle and I never drift.

I actually use an alias that pulls my pet, executes the stay command, runs the scavenger macro and the sample macro; so when I enter /Tipper, I start sampling without any further attention needed other than making sure I survey the correct resource.

I didn't think to add the scavenger macro to the sampling loop. I think I'll incorporate that; makes it more efficient.

However, I highly suggest the addition of the /stopfollow. I've watched many a sampling cycle skip as a result. But then again, this could be just a result of my lag issue. *shrug*
Last edited by Tech Twin on Fri May 15, 2009 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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scepe
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by scepe » Thu May 14, 2009 9:00 pm

please can someone help i have tried both the macros mentioned and i cant get the ui action lines to work to dismiss the pop ups and to trigger the scavenger buff
Any shipwright information greatly appreciated as its a big galaxy out there
Also looking for droid engineer, other shipwrights and any other uk players on the bria server

Reeth
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Reeth » Thu May 14, 2009 10:29 pm

scepe wrote:please can someone help i have tried both the macros mentioned and i cant get the ui action lines to work to dismiss the pop ups and to trigger the scavenger buff
One possibility occurs to me initially. If you're re-typing the macros into your client not copy/pasting, be sure to include the correctCapitalisation of the /ui commands, as they are case sensitive. This is the mistake I make most often when trying to set up a macro. :oops:

Trixie9819
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Thu May 14, 2009 10:39 pm

There's also a typo I just noticed in the most recent 'code' version posted by techtwin (/wave)

/sample;
/pause 8;
/stand;
/ui action defaultButton;
/pause 2;
/follow Tipper;
/pause 2;
/stopfollow;
/pause 4;
/m sampleT


In the /ui action line, it is defaultButton, not defaulButton

That might be your problem too, if you were working off of that macro suggestion.

Trixie9819
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Re: harvester vs hand sampling numbers?

Post by Trixie9819 » Thu May 14, 2009 10:58 pm

AND, I also wanted to update you all. My project at work basically put everything on hold including my family, lol. Now that I have reclaimed the house from 4 months of having the kids clean it for me *shudder* and gotten Starsider settled, and more importantly, now that they turned double XP on TCP again, I've been working on getting my toons there ready for my hand sampling experiments.

I have 1 toon to create and get from 5 to 50, and then I have to get three of them that are at 42 now to levels 60, 70, and 80 respectively, then I'll be set. I don't know if I have enough resources for that, but I guess we'll find out.

So, since I won't have any pets or robots to anchor me, I think I'm going to be using a very stripped down macro. Simply.

/sample;
/pause 15
/ui action defaultButton;
/pause 2;
/macro sample

I'm sure I'll be adjusting the pauses, my goal is to have the sample hit halfway through and then just after the 'timer' runs out of the loop. If that makes sense. If it's skipped a whole cycle, then making it sample again halfway through will get it started again. If it hasn't skipped, then no harm done. This gives it 17 seconds per cycle. I THINK they will gain back all their action in that amount of time. It's something that I will be checking. (ie, how long does it take a level 10 to recover action as opposed to a level 90, is it the same? different? if different then how different?)

I'll be playing around until I find a system that works for me, then I'll be able to get my 'baseline' of how much an unbuffed, un-expertised, un-resource pet, un-food-modified, trader can hand sample. I'll also be running a buffing ent as a 'control' to compare someone who not only doesn't have the expertise, but has no bonuses at all like a trader. Not to mention I'll have her handy when it comes time to test the buffs. Drop a vendor tent and crowd all 10 of them in there to be buffed, she can then buff herself. (see? there's a method to my madness)

But again, don't expect this to happen overnight. I may get everybody set up to test it all for 8 or 10 hours, only to find that one or more of the accounts crashed at some point and invalidating that test run. I'll also have to figure out the fastest way to get them all started at close to the same time. It shouldn't be hard, just setting them all up and surveyed so I just alt/click to start the macro so they all start within 10-20 seconds of each other.

That much margin of error I will have to accept.

Ok, enough rambling, if anyone has any coments or suggestions, feel free to let me know.

Ohhh, right, I have to remember to turn on timestamp and /log for all of them. Then I can dump it all in excel and track how many exceptional samples I get too.

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