JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread

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Valtier
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Re: *NEW* JnF's SWGCTool v2.0 - Official Thread

Post by Valtier » Wed May 06, 2009 1:09 pm

Onyx wrote:2) The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined. So, when I am doing the math, I don't apply the bonus until I've run the numbers. Once I have my final experimental average, then I add on the +40 and round it down to 100%. If you are determining between two resources, the one that is higher is the one that is better. It's to ease that dilemma that many of us who do our own math don't even think about the quality bonus until we have final numbers.
Hmmm...it's my understanding that the bonus is 4% of the resource cap, not 4% of the resource stat, nor a flat +40 which would result in gated resources receiving more than a 4% bonus.

I also do my own math, but in armorsmithing the goal is to use the lowest possible stat in order to take full advantage of segment and final combine bonuses that are not typical in other crafting. Also, many of the munition schematics I work with have a mix of resources with gated caps below 1000. I use this formula before applying weighted averages....

=IF(Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04)>Resource_cap, Resource_cap, Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04))

Example
Schematic: Advanced Ranged Weapon Core
Experimentation: CD 50% and OQ 50%.
Gated resource: 85 units of Carbonite Steel
Gated cap: Conductivity 605

Using my formula above, a value of 581 or greater results in 605 (4% of the resource cap). But if it really is a flat +40, then a value of 565 or greater would result in 605 (a bonus of roughly 7.1% of the resource stat). Anyone know for certain which is correct?
Last edited by Valtier on Wed May 06, 2009 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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panino76
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Re: *NEW* JnF's SWGCTool v2.0 - Official Thread

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 1:56 pm

Valtier wrote:
Onyx wrote:2) The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined. So, when I am doing the math, I don't apply the bonus until I've run the numbers. Once I have my final experimental average, then I add on the +40 and round it down to 100%. If you are determining between two resources, the one that is higher is the one that is better. It's to ease that dilemma that many of us who do our own math don't even think about the quality bonus until we have final numbers.
Hmmm...it's my understanding that the bonus is 4% of the resource cap, not 4% of the resource stat, nor a flat +40 which would result in gated resources receiving more than a 4% bonus.

I also do my own math, but in armorsmithing the goal is to use the lowest possible stat in order to take full advantage of segment and final combine bonuses that are not typical in other crafting. Also, many of the munition schematics I work with have a mix of resources with gated caps below 1000. I use this formula before applying weighted averages....

=IF(Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04)>Resource_cap, Resource_cap, Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04))

Example
Schematic: Advanced Ranged Weapon Core
Experimentation: CD 50% and OQ 50%.
Gated resource: 85 units of Carbonite Steel
Gated cap: Conductivity 605

Using my formula a value of 581 or greater results in 605. But if it really is a flat +40, then a value of 565 or greater would result in 605 (a bonus of roughly 7.1%). Anyone know for certain which is correct?
To be honest m8, if two crafters of "high caliber" like Zimoon for first, and Onyx these days, say that it's a flat +40, I have no doubt it works that way....anyway I was goin to make some tries to test the system with low quality resources (not capped ones) to be sure the system mantains always the same behaviour...

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Re: *NEW* JnF's SWGCTool v2.0 - Official Thread

Post by Valtier » Wed May 06, 2009 2:05 pm

panino76 wrote:To be honest m8, if two crafters of "high caliber" like Zimoon for first, and Onyx these days, say that it's a flat +40, I have no doubt it works that way....anyway I was goin to make some tries to test the system with low quality resources (not capped ones) to be sure the system mantains always the same behaviour...
Zimoon's trader guides illustrate how gated resources are calculated in weighted averages. I encourage you to experiment with schematics that call for resources with gated caps.

Gated resource test
Chef schematic: Ahrisa
Experimental Nutritional Value: OQ 33%, PE 66%
Gated resource: 10 units of Flowers
Gated cap: Potential Energy: 700

If the resource refinement bonus grants 4% of the resource cap, then Flowers with PE of 672 would be needed in order to cap Effect.

If the resource refinement bonus grants a flat +40, then Flowers with a PE of 660 would be needed in order to cap Effect.
Last edited by Valtier on Wed May 06, 2009 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 3:03 pm

Ok, let me show you some results I got so far:

Schematic tested: Advanced Repair Unit Case (Droid Engineer)
Resources required: 15 units of Neutronium Steel and 10 units of Rori Fiberplast
Experimental path: OQ 33% - UT 67%
Resources gates: 1000 for OQ on both resources, 1000 UT for fiberplast, 718 UT for Neutronium Steel
Resources used:
  • Dosa (Neutronium Steel) 975 OQ - 646 UT
  • Sipisi (Rori Fiberplast) 432 OQ - 916 UT
Ok, first of all let's calculate the real value of UT for neut. steel (since the gate is 718):

(646 * 1000)/718 = 899.72 (rounded at 2 decimals)

Now, let's make the experiments:

With 0 Points:
I expect a value of: ((975*15)+(432*10))/(15+10)*.33 + ((899.72*15)+(916*10))/(15+10)*.66 = 250 + 598 = 848 => 84% or 85% (according to how it's rounded)
Real value after experimentation: 85% (OK, that seems right)

With 2 points in expertise:
I expect a value of:
  • 848 * 1.02 (if it's 2%) = 864.96 => 86.49% => 86%
  • 848 + 20 (if it's a flat +20) = 868 => 86.8% => 86% or 87% (according to how it's rounded)
Real value after experimentation: 87% (OK, that seems to confirm it's a +20)


With 3 points in expertise:
I expect a value of:
  • 848 * 1.03 (if it's 3%) = 873.44 => 87.34% => 87%
  • 848 + 30 (if it's a flat +30) = 878 => 87.8% => 87% or 88% (according to how it's rounded)
Real value after experimentation: 88% (OK, that seems to confirm it's a +30)


With 4 points in expertise:
I expect a value of:
  • 848 * 1.04 (if it's 4%) = 881.92 => 88.19% => 88%
  • 848 + 40 (if it's a flat +40) = 888 => 88.8% => 88% or 89% (according to how it's rounded)
Real value after experimentation: 89% (OK, that seems to confirm it's a +40)

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Valtier » Wed May 06, 2009 3:25 pm

Putting your resource stats in my formula comes out like so...

0% of Resource cap
856.80

1% of Resource cap
866.80

2% of Resource cap
876.80

3% of Resource cap
885.81

4% of Resource cap
893.81

Since experimentation rounds down, your tests appear to confirm that it is not a flat +40, but is 4% of cap and is applied before weighted averages are totaled.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 3:48 pm

Valtier wrote:Putting your resource stats in my formula comes out like so...

0% of Resource cap
856.80

1% of Resource cap
866.80

2% of Resource cap
876.80

3% of Resource cap
885.81

4% of Resource cap
893.81

Since experimentation rounds down, your tests appear to confirm that it is not a flat +40, but is 4% of cap and is applied before weighted averages are totaled.
I don't think it works that way; as Onyx said, the bonus is not applied on each individual stat of each resource but, using her(his?) words "The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined." If it wouldn't work that way, how can you explain (since exp are rounded down like you say) that we are able to cap with resources having 960/1000? I don't think the system is supposed to work in a predetermined way if the stat cap is 1000 and in another way if it's lower.....

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Valtier » Wed May 06, 2009 4:09 pm

panino76 wrote:I don't think it works that way; as Onyx said, the bonus is not applied on each individual stat of each resource but, using her(his?) words "The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined." If it wouldn't work that way, how can you explain (since exp are rounded down like you say) that we are able to cap with resources having 960/1000? I don't think the system is supposed to work in a predetermined way if the stat cap is 1000 and in another way if it's lower.....
Because before I calculate weighted averages, I apply 4% of the resource cap not 4% of the resource stat, which does work for all resources including those capped at 1000 like so...

Resources
Neutronium Steel: 15 units with OQ 975, UT 646
Rori Fiberplast: 10 units with OQ 432, UT 916

Resource caps
Neutronium Steel: OQ 1000, UT 718
Rori Fiberplast: OQ 1000, UT 1000

Formulas
Using this formula for refined resource stats...
=IF(Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04)>Resource_cap, Resource_cap, Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04))

Results in these refined resource stats...
Nuetronium Steel: OQ 1000, UT 674.72
Rori Fiberplast: OQ 472, UT 956

Using this formula for OQ...
=(((Refined_resource_stat/resource_cap)*1000)*(Resource_quantity/Total_OQ_resources))*.333

Results in these OQ resource contributions...
Nuetronium Steel: 199.80 OQ
Rori Fiberplast: 62.87 OQ

Using this formula for UT...
=(((Refined_resource_stat/resource_cap)*1000)*(Resource_quantity/Total_UT_resources))*.667

Results in these UT resource contributions...
Nuetronium Steel: 376.08 UT
Rori Fiberplast: 255.06 UT

Totaled resource contributions: 893.81


Using my formulas above, Neutronium Steel OQ 960 would also result in total resource contributions 893.81.
Last edited by Valtier on Wed May 06, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 6:25 pm

Valtier wrote:
panino76 wrote:I don't think it works that way; as Onyx said, the bonus is not applied on each individual stat of each resource but, using her(his?) words "The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined." If it wouldn't work that way, how can you explain (since exp are rounded down like you say) that we are able to cap with resources having 960/1000? I don't think the system is supposed to work in a predetermined way if the stat cap is 1000 and in another way if it's lower.....
Because before I calculate weighted averages, I apply 4% of the resource cap not 4% of the resource stat, which does work for all resources including those capped at 1000 like so...
I don't know where you're getting those numbers....anyway I'll quote something you can find in Zimmon's guide for crafters
Zimoon wrote:Expertize Resource Quality Refinery

Chapter 5 moved the resource refinery from the Entertainers Inspiration buffs to the Trader's Expertize tree. A total of 4 % refinery of the resource quality can be achieved (players have found that rather than adding 4% you simply add 0.04 (or 40 if you compute with 1000) to the computed Max. 40 is indeed 4% of 1000 but the higher for the worse results, however, we happily accepts that "bonus".

The refinery is applied after the above formulas:
Code:
Increased Max = Max + Expertize Refinery
Example 1 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,838175 + 0.04 = 0.878175 = 87 %
Example 2 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,96366897590361 + 0.04 = 1.0037~ = 100 %
It doesn't matter if the resources have different caps on the used stats....the calculation is always the same, you've just to calculate the new average (on the capped stat) before proceding with the final calculation of the max possible value.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Valtier » Wed May 06, 2009 6:54 pm

panino76 wrote:
Valtier wrote:
panino76 wrote:I don't think it works that way; as Onyx said, the bonus is not applied on each individual stat of each resource but, using her(his?) words "The 4% (+40) does not get added until the final experimental average is determined." If it wouldn't work that way, how can you explain (since exp are rounded down like you say) that we are able to cap with resources having 960/1000? I don't think the system is supposed to work in a predetermined way if the stat cap is 1000 and in another way if it's lower.....
Because before I calculate weighted averages, I apply 4% of the resource cap not 4% of the resource stat, which does work for all resources including those capped at 1000 like so...
I don't know where you're getting those numbers....anyway I'll quote something you can find in Zimmon's guide for crafters
I got 'those numbers' from this formula as I stated above...
=IF(Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04)>Resource_cap, Resource_cap, Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04))

Your tests for Advanced Repair Unit Case disprove his example...notice he rounded down where you had to round up to make the formula work.
panino76 wrote:
Zimoon wrote:Expertize Resource Quality Refinery

Chapter 5 moved the resource refinery from the Entertainers Inspiration buffs to the Trader's Expertize tree. A total of 4 % refinery of the resource quality can be achieved (players have found that rather than adding 4% you simply add 0.04 (or 40 if you compute with 1000) to the computed Max. 40 is indeed 4% of 1000 but the higher for the worse results, however, we happily accepts that "bonus".

The refinery is applied after the above formulas:
Code:
Increased Max = Max + Expertize Refinery
Example 1 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,838175 + 0.04 = 0.878175 = 87 %
Example 2 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,96366897590361 + 0.04 = 1.0037~ = 100 %
It doesn't matter if the resources have different caps on the used stats....the calculation is always the same, you've just to calculate the new average (on the capped stat) before proceding with the final calculation of the max possible value.
The calculations are always the same regardless of resource cap using my formula as well.

Examples...
=IF(960 OQ + (1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus)>1000 OQ cap, then use 1000 OQ cap, else use 960 OQ +(1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 1000 using 960 OQ with a 1000 OQ cap.

=IF(975 OQ + (1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus)>1000 OQ cap, then use 1000 OQ cap, else use 975 OQ +(1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example also results in 1000 using 975 OQ with a 1000 OQ cap.

=IF(646 UT + (718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus)>718 UT cap, then use 718 UT cap, else use 646 UT +(718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 674.72 using 646 UT with a 718 UT cap.

=IF(690 UT + (718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus)>718 UT cap, then use 718 UT cap, else use 690 UT +(718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 718 using 690 UT with a 718 UT cap.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 9:05 pm

Valtier wrote:

I got 'those numbers' from this formula as I stated above...
=IF(Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04)>Resource_cap, Resource_cap, Resource_stat+(Resource_cap*.04))

Your tests for Advanced Repair Unit Case disprove his example...notice he rounded down where you had to round up to make the formula work.
panino76 wrote:
Zimoon wrote:Expertize Resource Quality Refinery

Chapter 5 moved the resource refinery from the Entertainers Inspiration buffs to the Trader's Expertize tree. A total of 4 % refinery of the resource quality can be achieved (players have found that rather than adding 4% you simply add 0.04 (or 40 if you compute with 1000) to the computed Max. 40 is indeed 4% of 1000 but the higher for the worse results, however, we happily accepts that "bonus".

The refinery is applied after the above formulas:
Code:
Increased Max = Max + Expertize Refinery
Example 1 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,838175 + 0.04 = 0.878175 = 87 %
Example 2 from above:
Code:
Refined Max = 0,96366897590361 + 0.04 = 1.0037~ = 100 %
It doesn't matter if the resources have different caps on the used stats....the calculation is always the same, you've just to calculate the new average (on the capped stat) before proceding with the final calculation of the max possible value.
The calculations are always the same regardless of resource cap using my formula as well.

Examples...
=IF(960 OQ + (1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus)>1000 OQ cap, then use 1000 OQ cap, else use 960 OQ +(1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 1000 using 960 OQ with a 1000 OQ cap.

=IF(975 OQ + (1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus)>1000 OQ cap, then use 1000 OQ cap, else use 975 OQ +(1000 OQ cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example also results in 1000 using 975 OQ with a 1000 OQ cap.

=IF(646 UT + (718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus)>718 UT cap, then use 718 UT cap, else use 646 UT +(718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 674.72 using 646 UT with a 718 UT cap.

=IF(690 UT + (718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus)>718 UT cap, then use 718 UT cap, else use 690 UT +(718 UT cap*.04 refinement bonus). This example results in 718 using 690 UT with a 718 UT cap.
The simple fact I rounded them up is because I used .66 on my calculations (OQ 66%). If you replace that .66 with a more correct .667, you'll find that my calculations will meet the real results rounding every result down as it should be.

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Onyx » Wed May 06, 2009 10:25 pm

Valtier wrote:Putting your resource stats in my formula comes out like so...

0% of Resource cap
856.80

1% of Resource cap
866.80

2% of Resource cap
876.80

3% of Resource cap
885.81

4% of Resource cap
893.81

Since experimentation rounds down, your tests appear to confirm that it is not a flat +40, but is 4% of cap and is applied before weighted averages are totaled.
Actually, no. He only used .66 and .33 in his calculations, which is what made the difference in the rounding. Running the equation with .66666666 and .33333333 with +10, 20, 30, 40 here's what I get:

0% of Resource cap
856.55 (85%)

1% of Resource cap
866.55 (86%)

2% of Resource cap
876.55 (87%)

3% of Resource cap
886.55 (88%)

4% of Resource cap
893.81 (89%)

Which is exactly what he got on experimentation. However, these are too close to call. To illustrate it we need to use low quality resources. I couldn't find a schem were it only called for one resource that had a cap so I'm going to make Scrimpi which uses 20 units of Herbivore Meat, Soft Wood and Water. Herbivore meat has a cap of 700 on FL, Soft Wood a cap of 600 on DR.

Schematic tested: Scrimpi (Domestics)
Resources required: 20 units of Herbivore Meat, 20 units of Soft Wood and 20 units of Water
Duration Experimention Line: DR 33% - FL 67%
Resources caps: 1000 for DR for Herbivore Meat and Water, 600 DR for Soft Wood; 700 FL for Herbivore Meat
Resources used:

Starsider.Ecemioheo (Herbivore Meat) 861 DR 97 FL
Starsider.Euninn (Soft Wood) 178 DR
Recycled Water (Water) 200 DR

Converted DR for Soft Wood (cap is 600):
(178 * 1000)/600 = 296.6667

Converted FL for herbivore meat (cap is 700):
(97 * 1000)/700 = 138.5714


I've underlined the formula(s) that equaled the actual result:

With 0 Points:
I expect a value of: ((138.5714*20))/(20)*.3333333 + ((296.6667*20)+(861*20)+(200*20))/(2020+20)*.666666 = 92.38 + 150.8517 = 243.2328 => 24%
Real value after experimentation: 24%

With 1 point in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.01)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.01)) + (861 + (1000*.01)) + (200 + (1000*.01))) = 250.7884 => 25%
243.2328 + 10 (if it's a flat +10) = 253.2328 => 25%
Real value after experimentation: 25%

With 2 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.02)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.02)) + (861 + (1000*.02)) + (200 + (1000*.02))) = 258.3499 => 25%
243.2328 + 20 (if it's a flat +20) = 263.2328 => 26%
Real value after experimentation: 26%


With 3 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.03)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.03)) + (861 + (1000*.03)) + (200 + (1000*.03))) = 265.8995 => 26%
243.2328 + 30 (if it's a flat +30) = 273.2328 => 27%
Real value after experimentation: 27%


With 4 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.04)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.04)) + (861 + (1000*.04)) + (200 + (1000*.04))) = 273.455 => 27%
243.2328 + 40 (if it's a flat +40) = 283.2328 => 28%
Real value after experimentation: 28%

As I said before, the +40 has been verified and confirmed by the devs (so I'm not sure why we needed the exercise). It is a flat +10 per point of expertise. The above calculations depict that.

And the quality bonus is not added to the resources' stats. It is ONLY applied to the final experimental average. It has nothing at all to do with stat caps. Otherwise, the equation simply wouldn't work because 1000 is the hard cap and nothing could ever exceed it (i.e. you wouldn't see 1040).
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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Onyx » Wed May 06, 2009 10:57 pm

On a totally different note, we had a number of resources and or stat requirements that changed on foods/drinks.

The following schematics now require:

Durindfire: 20 Funghi, 20 Flower Fruit, 1 Container, 1 Alcohol, ,
Garrmorl: 30 Wild Rice, 30 Flower Fruit, 1 Container, 2 Alcohol, 1 Medium Additive (optional)
Starshine Surprise: 15 Cereal, 15 Fruit, 1 Container, Light Additive (optional)
T'illa-T'll: 30 Beans, 30 Wild Corn, 30 Tubers, 1 Container, 2 Alcohol, Heavy Additive (optional)


For resource stats, please reference the food chart. Some had an experimentation line added, others the resource stats for Flavor Experimentation (Duration) were changed and all schematics had the Filling Experimentation line removed.

Is there a way to choose different experimentation lines on the Crafting Sheet?

Also, is it possible to get the foods, drinks and pet food categories added in? Right now all of those are showing under Misc.
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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by panino76 » Wed May 06, 2009 11:15 pm

Onyx wrote:On a totally different note, we had a number of resources and or stat requirements that changed on foods/drinks.

The following schematics now require:

Durindfire: 20 Funghi, 20 Flower Fruit, 1 Container, 1 Alcohol, ,
Garrmorl: 30 Wild Rice, 30 Flower Fruit, 1 Container, 2 Alcohol, 1 Medium Additive (optional)
Starshine Surprise: 15 Cereal, 15 Fruit, 1 Container, Light Additive (optional)
T'illa-T'll: 30 Beans, 30 Wild Corn, 30 Tubers, 1 Container, 2 Alcohol, Heavy Additive (optional)


For resource stats, please reference the food chart. Some had an experimentation line added, others the resource stats for Flavor Experimentation (Duration) were changed and all schematics had the Filling Experimentation line removed.

Is there a way to choose different experimentation lines on the Crafting Sheet?

Also, is it possible to get the foods, drinks and pet food categories added in? Right now all of those are showing under Misc.
1) I've seen the changes in those schematics just today, while seeing that there was a nice spawn of hydro-3 inert gas, no more referenced in the food chart...I'm goin to fix those schems asap (removing the filling tissues too....)
2) No, actually you can't change the Crafting Sheet exp line....and that was just a temporary sheet, I'm working on a better, faster version with a lot of functionalities that actually are missing from that....I just need to finish my work on the new lantyssa's chef tissue calculator and to fix the wrong way the exp value are calculated....
3) Yes, they are already set in the schematics database, it's just that the schematic selector windows just show you the main category, not the subcategory, and, as you can see ingame, in your datapad, the main category is "Misc"...anyway, I'll add the subcategory too...this is something I noted too and was planning to add....as always time is what I miss the most...

P.S Read your station forum PM, thanks :)

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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Valtier » Thu May 07, 2009 12:49 am

As I've said at least three times now, I agree with you and Artax that the bonus can not be calculated using resource stat * refinement bonus. However, my formulas do not do that and they do result in the same 'result value after experimentation' that you recorded, although there is a slight diff in your totals after you apply a flat +10 bonus...

Results using my formula for refinement bonus: 0% 243.13%, 1% 253.13, 2% 263.13, 3% 273.13, and 4% 283.13

Also there is no way in which my formulas create a resource with a value of 1040.
Onyx wrote:To illustrate it we need to use low quality resources. I couldn't find a schem were it only called for one resource that had a cap so I'm going to make Scrimpi which uses 20 units of Herbivore Meat, Soft Wood and Water. Herbivore meat has a cap of 700 on FL, Soft Wood a cap of 600 on DR.

Schematic tested: Scrimpi (Domestics)
Resources required: 20 units of Herbivore Meat, 20 units of Soft Wood and 20 units of Water
Duration Experimention Line: DR 33% - FL 67%
Resources caps: 1000 for DR for Herbivore Meat and Water, 600 DR for Soft Wood; 700 FL for Herbivore Meat
Resources used:

Starsider.Ecemioheo (Herbivore Meat) 861 DR 97 FL
Starsider.Euninn (Soft Wood) 178 DR
Recycled Water (Water) 200 DR

Converted DR for Soft Wood (cap is 600):
(178 * 1000)/600 = 296.6667

Converted FL for herbivore meat (cap is 700):
(97 * 1000)/700 = 138.5714


I've underlined the formula(s) that equaled the actual result:

With 0 Points:
I expect a value of: ((138.5714*20))/(20)*.3333333 + ((296.6667*20)+(861*20)+(200*20))/(2020+20)*.666666 = 92.38 + 150.8517 = 243.2328 => 24%
Real value after experimentation: 24%

With 1 point in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.01)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.01)) + (861 + (1000*.01)) + (200 + (1000*.01))) = 250.7884 => 25%
243.2328 + 10 (if it's a flat +10) = 253.2328 => 25%
Real value after experimentation: 25%

With 2 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.02)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.02)) + (861 + (1000*.02)) + (200 + (1000*.02))) = 258.3499 => 25%
243.2328 + 20 (if it's a flat +20) = 263.2328 => 26%
Real value after experimentation: 26%


With 3 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.03)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.03)) + (861 + (1000*.03)) + (200 + (1000*.03))) = 265.8995 => 26%
243.2328 + 30 (if it's a flat +30) = 273.2328 => 27%
Real value after experimentation: 27%


With 4 points in expertise:
(138.5714 + (700*.04)) + ((296.6667 + (600*.04)) + (861 + (1000*.04)) + (200 + (1000*.04))) = 273.455 => 27%
243.2328 + 40 (if it's a flat +40) = 283.2328 => 28%
Real value after experimentation: 28%

As I said before, the +40 has been verified and confirmed by the devs (so I'm not sure why we needed the exercise). It is a flat +10 per point of expertise. The above calculations depict that.

And the quality bonus is not added to the resources' stats. It is ONLY applied to the final experimental average. It has nothing at all to do with stat caps. Otherwise, the equation simply wouldn't work because 1000 is the hard cap and nothing could ever exceed it (i.e. you wouldn't see 1040).

Onyx
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Re: JnF's SWGCTool v2.0.2 - Official Thread (UPDATED)

Post by Onyx » Thu May 07, 2009 3:01 am

Ah, ok, I was reading your formula incorrectly.

Ok, here's a different example which I believe does illustrate the issue.

Mandalorian Wine
15 Wild Rice: Akinoh PE 667 OQ 958
15 Fruit: Kettemoor.Augem PE 985 OQ 034

Wild Rice has a PE cap of 700


For 1% and 2% our formulas result in the same percentage. For 3 and 4% however, they do not. That's because those two resources are just barely capable of capping and by calculating the bonus pre-assembly you are setting the the OQ of the Fruit at 1000 and it is not being allowed to give the edge that they actually do--the ability to overcome a slightly less-than-perfect on the stat-capped PE of the wild rice.

Using your refined calculation I believe you get the following:

3%
Wild Rice: PE 688 OQ 988
Fruit: PE 1000 OQ 964

PE
Wild Rice: 327.78 PE
Fruit: 333.5 PE

OQ
Wild Rice: 164.502
Fruit: 160.506

Total resouce contributions: 986.29 or 98%

4%
Wild Rice: PE 695 OQ 998
Fruit: PE 1000 OQ 974

PE
Wild Rice: 331.1179 PE
Fruit: 333.5 PE

OQ
Wild Rice: 166.167
Fruit: 162.171

Total resouce contributions: 992.9559 or 99%


Actual calculations:
PE: ( ((667*1000)/700)*15) + (985*15))/(15 + 15) ) = 968.9286

(968.9286 * .667) = 646.2754

OQ: ( ((958*15) + (934*15))/(15 + 15) ) = 946

(946 * .333) = 315.018

646.2754 + 315.018 = 961.29

With +30 bonus: (961.29 + 30) = 991.29 or 99%
With +40 bonus: (961.29 + 40) 1001.29 or 100%

Actual experimentation
3 expertise points spent: 99%
4 expertise points spent: 100%

The part where I think the confusion lies is that the gated resources are not gaining more than +40. Instead, they are converted to what their value would be if their cap was 1000. So, all resources are being treated as equal because they are all used in the equation as though their cap was 1000.
Onyx, Chef Forum Moderator

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