New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

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DeathTrooper
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New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by DeathTrooper » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:53 am

Type, Manufactured, and Crate Size
Type is the source for the schematic; usually this is "Regular". This site also supports schematics that are looted, obtained as reward from a quest, from a deconstructed item, bought from a factional officer, or the similar.
______________________________________

I just added the 2 new GU16 SW schematics bought from Watto with Duty Mission Tokens. The closest "TYPE" seems to be "bought from factional officer" but these are not faction restricted and are bought from Watto and allegedly from Kash Nunes on the Nova Orion Station, though when I last checked he did not seem to be offering them on Bloodfin.

Could we get another "TYPE" added for "purchased from non-faction npc"? I created the schems as type "reward" with comments/details on how to purchase them. Is "regular" the preferred type when no other types seem to fit?

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Swedishoyster
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Swedishoyster » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:12 am

Maybe an "Other" field since there might be more to come in the future etc, I didn't really know what to choose for metalump lump bought schematics either (I chose quest reward).
So an "Other" field could cover all other weird kinds and then you just explain in the comment field just how this schematic is obtained.
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Zimoon
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:24 am

DeathTrooper wrote:Type, Manufactured, and Crate Size
Type is the source for the schematic; usually this is "Regular". This site also supports schematics that are looted, obtained as reward from a quest, from a deconstructed item, bought from a factional officer, or the similar.
______________________________________

I just added the 2 new GU16 SW schematics bought from Watto with Duty Mission Tokens. The closest "TYPE" seems to be "bought from factional officer" but these are not faction restricted and are bought from Watto and allegedly from Kash Nunes on the Nova Orion Station, though when I last checked he did not seem to be offering them on Bloodfin.

Could we get another "TYPE" added for "purchased from non-faction npc"? I created the schems as type "reward" with comments/details on how to purchase them. Is "regular" the preferred type when no other types seem to fit?
they factional to begin with? Rebel or Imp?

What could be done, and with recent changes to the game is perhaps to (just suggestions)
  • retain factional as-is
  • retain deconstructed as is, as a marker of its origin and if there is a name-confusion
  • merge looted and reward into one type "Obtained" which include any kind of source, but not factional

Background: Once there were not so many ways to get hold of schematics, except factional schematics, to buy schematics for GCW or any kind of coins are added later on.

Rationale: I wonder if the best way to convey the origin of a schematic is this field. I think I was one of the group that suggested them, but times have changed. Perhaps it is easier to just have a "Obtained" and no matter how it is obtained, loot, quest reward, bought from meatlump drones, GCW vendors, or whatever. Again I suggest a moderated field just beneath the Misc Info field where information on source/price/how etc can go (the info can be posted as a comment, edited/reformatted by schematic maintainers and moderators, and posted in that otherwise non-editable field).

Only if schematics somehow are bound to faction or if any other kind of limitation is introduced and is not obvious from anything else (such as Pilot certification level etc.) it makes sense to have new markers for that, right? Otherwise, keep it simple and less error prone.

Opinions and thoughts?

/Zimoon



EDITED: Did it take me more than 12 minutes to type this? :shock:



EDIT 2: Is there a better word for "obtained" in this context?

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Savacc
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Savacc » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:01 pm

Zimoon wrote:EDIT 2: Is there a better word for "obtained" in this context?
You could say "acquired" or "received", but "obtained" works too. "Learned" would normally also be a synonym, but "learned schematics" have a narrower meaning in SWG.

I imagine your goal is to have two categories of schematics, those obtained/acquired/received by leveling, and those obtained/acquired/received by other game play?

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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:30 pm

Yes, "Regular" contains anything from leveling ... including expertise which is determined by the profession-level field.

"Factional" is anything that is obtained only by factional means.

"Obtained" would be anything else, acquired, rewarded, extracted, stolen, ... you name it.

Actually, the factional could also go into the "obtained" field, if there just was that informative, moderated info field 8)

/Zimoon

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DeathTrooper
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by DeathTrooper » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:27 pm

Good discussions.

"Regular" for the typical learned schems was what I figured, but some "other" schems have gotten listed as Regular and that may confuse some. Nak'tra Crystal KNife, I think was listed as Regular, but it's actually quite irregular, even compared to other special schematics.

"Faction Officer" is fine for the GCW and Rank purchases, since it describes where to get them even if the items are not always faction-restricted. It also seems the best bet for Factional Armor, which I've never made but I'd guess you get them from faction officers, and the items are actually faction restricted. There has been some requests for "Neutral Faction" armor as well, (personally, I think Mandalorian Armor should be neutral faction restricted, but I'm a die-hard SW fan and can get darn right snobby about it, hehe)

"Looted" seems pretty specific, and as far as I know looted schems are always 1 use temporary ones. Merging that with "Other" could add a little confusion to some existing schems.

"Reward" fits with most quest rewarded schems, but the Nak'tra Crystal Knife is still irregular in that category since you do end up with a permanent schematic plus the 5 knives crafted for the quest can be deconstructed and learned (as a single use schem) by a WS who has not done the quest.

"Deconstructed" is pretty good, it says you get the schem this way, but it leaves open the question of how to get the weapon for deconstruction in the first place. Not all can be bought, sold, or even traded as is the case with the Tusken King's Rifle, still to my knowledge to ONLY item that is no-trade after crafting it.

"Other" would of course fit anything not specifically covered already, but doesn't really give a clue to how it's gotten. Replacing "Faction bought" with other could be a good enough solution, but I would not suggest merging relevant categories into one ambiguous one.

Obtained, Acquired, Learned... really applies to any and all schems, right? I'd try to avoid these. And the comments fields or "additional info" fields are good, and that's where I've been putting clarifications.

"Other" I guess would be my choice, but at the most to replace "Faction bought" and not merged with other categories. I like the input though, and I'll check back and see if any other suggestions catch my eye. For now, if the item is actually "rewarded" or bought with "rewarded tokens" then I'd keep putting them in as "Reward" like Swedishoyster said and like I did with the new "piracy" schems, with a little elaboration in the comments. HydroTek ("old friend" of mine in game) told me the schem for the "Intel WarPad" is a bit irregular, in that you buy it once with tokens (Meatlump Lumps) but the "bought" schem is learned permanently (might be one Oyster was referring to, and learning that fact really upset me since the resource requirements are so low but vendors on BloodFin are selling them for 1/2mil or more and giving them misleading names to push their higher priced ones... actually, I think a certain vendor there needs to be reported to SOE for trying to mislead with item descriptions).

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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:49 pm

Great, get the feedbaclk, thoughts and command coming.
DT, you mentioned some tidbits I didn't think of back at work this morning, I am already reconsidering.
I guess what we all benefit from, as a community, is the information. How it is displayed is less of a deal, but rather what is essential, what makes one option distinct and separate from another, etc.
So, perhaps we should gathar info on how many differentent sources there really are?

Greetings
Zimoon

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DeathTrooper
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by DeathTrooper » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:51 pm

I can compile the list of ways to obtain and add to the OP. Once we all agree that all bases are covered, then you technical guys can figure out how to add that to the schem editor. Even something like the TK's Rifle "no-trade crafted item" status might be worthy of its own category, because really we don't know if other weapons or schems might have this in the future. I'm not sure it was intended this way for the TK Rifle, and I DID see one (i assume very old) Tusken King's Rifle on a vendor without the no-trade constrictions. Things like the Nak'tra Knives and the "quest learned" Marauder Recon/Assault armors seem to be rare, but again there could be more like them to come in the future, so giving them notice now may pay off later... in fact, I think...

"Quest-Learned" could be a good category. Could also have...

"Decon-No Trade" for TK's Rifle

"Decon-Loot" for the Sayormi and Mauf looted weapons on Kash (and the heroics loot ones)

"Decon-Reward" for weapons like the Jawa Ion Pistol requiring a quest

"Decon-Collection" I think would apply to the Master EE3 BH Carbine (or do they just get a schem reward?)

"Collection-Schem" for the entertainer collection props

"Token Bought-Limited" for the piracy schems

"Token Bought-Permanent" for the War IntelPad

---------------------------------------------

I know that doesn't cover all, and it is possible to get too specific and create confusion with too many options, but I think a good balance could be found.

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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by DeathTrooper » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:01 am

Also, and this can go in a new thread if needed, how about a dropdown box where it says "generic/specialized tool needed" in the complexity field. Being able to know exactly what tool is used may not have been an issue before, but since the GCW Tools came out we cannot always assume the skill used to craft matches the tool used to craft.

AND, maybe a dropdown box stating which specific skill is needed for experimenting to best quality. There are still some questions from crafters about which skills apply, just today I saw a thread in soe forums by a tailor asking why his/her patrol tools were not coming out right. Again, if it's time for an overhaul, a little foresight now could reduce the need for more tweaking in the future. But I wouldn't want to bite off more than you all can chew. :mrgreen:

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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by Swedishoyster » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:04 pm

I agree with the tool/crafting station thingie, for example that armoursmiths makes armour coloring kits with a General crafting tool/station isn't entirely obvious.
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Re: New schem type "bought from non-factional npc" needed?

Post by DeathTrooper » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:00 pm

Swedishoyster wrote:I agree with the tool/crafting station thingie, for example that armoursmiths makes armour coloring kits with a General crafting tool/station isn't entirely obvious.
Now, can anyone think of ANY situation where the crafting tool used and the crafting station used don't really match? Only example I can think of might be saber-crafting for Jedi. Anything that can be made with the profession-given generic "tuned crafting tools" as well as other tools could keep the old "generic crafting tool required" description, items like Meat Jerky and what is it, Casual Pants? If something can be made with 2 different tools it might be worth noting.

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