What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

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Ce'Nedra
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What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by Ce'Nedra » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:23 am

So, here's my deal, and this is what made me think of the very first RE'ers.
Once upon a time, there weren't +35 power bits on the bazaar. I imagine there was a time when the very first RE'er had to use a suit with +25's and other luck boosters to begin making PuPs. What am I getting at? There's got to be a way of boosting your RE chance relying on stacking luck to start with. All of the guides start at the assumption you have access to +35 power bits so you can instantly have +10 pups for your shirt, weapon, and chest. If you only have enough RE chance at the beginning to make +6 pups, you need to rely on additional luck in order to RE stat loot to get you high enough power bits to make +7 pups, then rinse and repeat. I haven't seen a formula, but there must be some break point of RE chance + luck that would guarantee a point over the stat you're RE'ing. Of course, I'm just thinking out loud, and I promise I've read the dozen guides that are out there, I just don't see them starting from scratch.

Swedishoyster
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by Swedishoyster » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:48 am

Well even capped at RE I still have gotten a few +8 or +9 RE pup
I have no doubt a +25 suit can yield powerbits in the 30ies.
Also my first +11 pup did I get when I only had +140 something RE.
I still only get +10 pups on my darn tailor again and again with 158 RE (probably wasted ten 35's), but my DE got an +11 at first try at 155 RE, it's really pretty random and you are never guaranteed anything, more RE and luck just increase your chance, both when it comes to making 35's and 11 pups.

I'm pretty sure you can make 35's with way lower RE, I've done it without the cybernetic RE-arm, it just takes longer.

It's like socketing armour/clothes, you may do it with 120 assembly, but chances are way higher with 159.
(Yeah I know 160 gets you guaranteed sockets).

My luck is around 500 on each, I also ent buff and eat lucky food

I don't know the statistics for RE, but in RL trials my latest tries went:
155RE DE 11 at first try
156RE AS: 2 tries, a 9 then a 11
158RE Tailor: 10 tries, not a single 11, a few 10, a darn 8 (then I ran out of 35's)
Sork Inc. Perdition, Dantooine
Hunterella, Architect/Armorsmith - Sorkella, Ranger/Riflewoman
Snufsan, Tailor/Chef/x - Healerella, Doctor
Bimborella, Swordswoman/Medic - Sniperella, Rifle/BE

Zimoon
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by Zimoon » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:16 pm

Ce'Nedra wrote:... All of the guides start at the assumption you have access to +35 power bits...
The nearby RE 101 does not make that assumption. On the other hand, it seems a bit superfluous to spell it out that a trader must first build a lower ladder to be able to build a taller. Have you once started with a low-level crafting tool and wanted to make yourself a 15.00 crafting tool you kind of know the ropes.

Your post actually touches something that was true for the very first RE-guides, I remember the very first "guide" which did not know about the iteration process, as if the possibility did not even exist, those were the days :lol:

So, which comes first? The chicken or the egg? Guides or self-learned knowledge hehe :)

I am about to give RE 101 a needed overhaul and I will have it in mind. Possibly your comments fit better in a RE -- Quick Start than the 101.

/Zimoon

Ce'Nedra
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by Ce'Nedra » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:20 pm

Zimoon wrote:Possibly your comments fit better in a RE -- Quick Start than the 101.
That might not be a bad idea as I move forward with RE'ing. I think you've convinced me to document my progress as I go about this daunting task of inching my up the RE ladder. Although, I did purchase the exotic attachments to begin with. I can at least start with those and my mismatched suit of luck. Perhaps that's the first step, piecing together a luck suit out of mob drops so that you can create a suit of +25's and go from there. Thinking out loud again, but looking forward to experimenting with this and perhaps shedding some light on the subject.

Luck - 410
RE Chance - 125
+26 bit to +35 bit = 36 iterations
Last edited by Ce'Nedra on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vagrant
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by vagrant » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:04 pm

I just completed my full RE suit from essentially NOTHING but the expertise bonuses and looted +15~ looted clothing/armor. I didn't have 1 +25 to start and made ALL of my +35s (for Luck) and +30's (for RE).
So not only is it possible (albeit somewhat painful with the failure rate) to make +35's without having +25s but I didn't have a piece of clothing/armor over +20 luck to start and made +35's without too much trouble.

Good luck

DeathTrooper
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by DeathTrooper » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:59 pm

I'm cheap, and lazy, so I had to find a good balance of those traits when I got started with RE. It helps to have a combat-class alt (or respec if you're leveled as combat-class) if you really want to start from scratch, do no iterations, and actually make a profit while... let's face it, mugging Exar Kun guys for their clothes. :roll: With the standard applied expertise and an often cheap +10 RE tool I can take a couple handfuls of +25 clothes and get a decent number of +30-31 bits, and of course that's enough to get your +3 RE bit. Even the lower power ones come in handy if you're making the +1 RE armor/weapon bits (munitions only) since I think they only need a +25 to get the max +1 RE. I'm not sure how much an extra 50-60 luck affects RE chances, but I get good results from all +30-31 Luck instead of +35's. If you're willing to respec between the 3 traders (munitions/domestics/engineering), or if you and 2 friends cover all specialties, then it's easy to make a +11 RE / +360 Luck suit using no pups or iterations at all. This would at least make a good starter RE suit. I've never made a +35 to be honest, it was enough of a pain bumping a few 29's to 30's and 31's to 32's. I do remember reading a guide once, but not sure if it's the one here. I'll have to look because I still need RE suits for a couple of my traders and any shortcuts to cater to my laziness are welcome. My cheapness still comes into play, but on one trader I did buy a +1 RE chestplate for about 300k credits. If you're not really into crafting armor I suggest shopping for a +1 RE chestplate with open socket and make yourself the +3 RE and +30-35 Luck to go in it.

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Ceres
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Re: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Post by Ceres » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:43 pm

I kinda went thru the same process of doing it myself without a lot of goodies. Set my expertises, put on all the +luck armor and clothes mis-match I could scrounge up and started trying it. I even made myself a duster then a vest (pullover) to avoid buying a chest plate. Initially I made horrible +7 pup for shirt.

I started making a suit and putting the 20-25 luck's i could "easily" make myself on every clothing item possible. Having no one in my guild doing RE at the time, i went and bough some +8 and +9 chest and weap pups cheaply. finally I was able to make some 30's and made better RE shirt and pullover for self. I took all those old clothes and looted collection and reground them one by one into 35 luck's for new clothes in that slot.

After all that I was fairly easily able to grind up a +22 looted item to +35 with several iteration fails, especially in the 30+ range. I bought a set of +11 chest and weap pups to go with my first ever +11 cloth pup I made for self. Ground out sampling for the cybernetic arm collection, bought armor plate and weap with the +1 crafted RE bit in them, learned how to combine musty loot into those special stim items, a friend started making +203 luck food...

Lastly, last week I got on the new +77 luck embroidered sash from the emperors statue in Theed. My spy I respecced to smuggler so he can call and dismiss a junk dealer every ten minutes. This week I bought the RE Enhancers after reading a thread here.

Now after a year of work (and probably 25M spent on things I cant make for myself,) I'm at 159 RE and can hit over 1300 luck if i pop everything at once. going from +22 loot to +35 takes a LOT less iterations with fewer fails, probably half vs last month and 1/4 vs last year. ...and I still could stand to do a musty instance run and get myself one of those +200 luck items... so theres room for growth to go. But Im happy now with the success rate. I'd have to update you later on a run of RE pups and see how that goes vs prior runs, but Im confident it will be more than one 11 per dozen now.

The journey from totally clueless to making big creds off RE has been fun and I totally appreciate what you are commenting on. Somewhere on the learning curve i got bit by the RE bug and decided to invest in what my guild couldn't make me.

You can do this solo with multiple crafters of your own. I'd start with the tailor doing the best you can to outfit your whole crew of 3 RE crafters. All of that stuff can easily be re-RE'd later into higher stat bits, hehe.

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