Possible observation while making power bits?

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jt26077
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Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:10 pm

Before getting into the RE game, I did alot of research to avoid wasting my time doing it wrong and I noticed alot of people tend to use things like bracers or casual shoes as their vehicle to make their power bits stronger... mainly because they have a fairly low resource cost and can be mass produced pretty easy. The only downside I saw to this was that there is no CL associated with these items. I started looking for craftable items with a high CL and low resource costs and only found one good candidate... Power Hammers!

To make a factory run it takes 75k Kammris Iron, 40k Metal, 24k copper. I also noticed you can use a regular Reinforcement Core as a subcomponent instead of the Advanced Reinforcement Core, so you dont even need the 25k ditanium steel... just 12k Metal. This will yield 1000 CL 80 Power Hammers. Granted, these resource costs are a bit higher than casual shoes but you get a CL 80 item and dont have to go hunting for hides (which isnt a big deal, but I just care for harvesting hides).

Im pretty new to RE so I dont know if my results are typical or not, but here are some numbers...

My RE chance is 134 (I just have 3 +8 PUPs)
My Luck is about 226 (I am just returning from about a 2 year break from SWG so I very little statted gear)

I ran through about 50 modifier bits, and from those 50 attempts I was able to raise 4 +26 power bits to +30 (just trying to build a RE suit)... so thats about 12-13 combines to raise 4 points. I am hoping that the added CL to the item helps reduce RE failure. What do you guys think?

thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, here are some preliminary tests run on 3 power bits. First one I took all the way to 35 just to see how long it would take, and the other 2 I just ran up to 30 (still working on building my RE suit). All power bits started at +26. I didnt record whether the resulting bit was a 1st or 2nd order bit, but most of them were 2nd order. This whole series of tests took just under 30 mins to run... then my PUPs wore off.

Bit 1 using Power Hammers
Attempt# Result
1, 26 (No change)
2, 27 (+1)
3, 27 (No change)
4, 28 (+1)
5, 28 (No change)
6, 29 (+1)
7-11, 29 (No change)
12, 30 (+1)
13, 31 (+1)
14-19, 31 (No change)
20, 32 (+1)
21-22, 32 (No change)
23, 33 (+1)
24-29, 33 (No change)
30, 34 (+1)
31-32, 34 (No change)
33, 35 (+1)

Bit2 using Power Hammers
1-3, 26 (No change)
4, 27 (+1)
5, 27 (No change)
6, 28 (+1)
7, 28 (No change)
8, 29 (+1)
9-14, 29 (No change)
15, 30 (+1)

Bit3 using Power Hammers
1, 26 (No change)
2, 27(+1)
3-6, 27 (No change)
7, 28(+1)
8, 28 (No change)
9, 29 (+1)
10, 29 (No change)
11, 30 (+1)

The results look fairly encouraging to me, but I don't have any experience to compare it with using CL1 type items like the casual shoes or bracers. There were a few dry spells where I didn't get a hit for 4-5 attempts, but over all it looks like the average is +1 point every 3-4 attempts. I can only assume it would take fewer attempts with a RE chance in the 140s and 500+ luck. I can re-run these tests once my stats are better.
Last edited by jt26077 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Zimoon
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:54 pm

Hmm, I have never thought of this aspect, but I am just a Chef too ;) :P

So, when using Power Hammers how many steps do a power bit raise in one go?

With shoes we know only one step at a time is possible, due to its CL1 state, but does Power Hammers allow for more or not? If so, how much on average?

Next question would be, one Power Hammer compared to maybe 4 shoes (or whatever your procession is), what is the net resource cost?

Finally, congrats to your first post and welcome here :D

/Zimoon

jt26077
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:22 pm

So far I havent seen a progression step more than 1 point, but with all my tests so far I have yet to lose points. So I am thinking maybe the CL80 aspect of the item might reduce the chance of going backwards.

If you just look at straight numbers a Power Hammer takes 151 units and shoes take 20 units. So you could make 7 shoes to 1 hammer, but if it takes fewer hammers to progress up to +35, then you may be effectively trading time/frustration for resources.

I averaged +1 point every 3-4 attempts, but one thing of note was having a run of 3 positive steps in a row. Something to keep in mind though is that I am testing with a RE of 134 and Luck of about 230, so I dont really know what my results would look like with my RE max'd and Luck in the 800+ area.

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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:53 pm

I am looking forward to hear more about this, indeed. Should the net cost be reduced I am all for it, and it would not only reduce the resources, it would save all RE-guys a lot of time, which makes up for quite some resource stacks :)

I will stay tuned to this thread, believe me!

/Zimoon

jt26077
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:22 pm

I'll test this more extensively once I get my hands on a few stacks of RE junk. It may take a while to get a decent amount of modifier bits, so if anyone else wants to give this a test as well... let us know what sort of results you get.

I'll modify the original post with my findings once I get more data.

jt26077
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:46 pm

New results posted. I'll run some more tests once I bump up my RE and Luck up a bit.

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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Zimoon » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:08 pm

I am uncertain, are these runs with CL1 items or with Power Hammers???

/Zimoon

jt26077
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:20 pm

Sorry for the confusion, those test results were with Power Hammers. Im not sure how those results stack up to CL1 items just yet. I can try and track down a few crates of shoes or something.

Rommel
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Rommel » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:33 pm

I guess I'll run some test on bloodfin sometime soon since I have loads of everything needed.

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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Zimoon » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:56 pm

jt26077 wrote:Sorry for the confusion, those test results were with Power Hammers. Im not sure how those results stack up to CL1 items just yet. I can try and track down a few crates of shoes or something.
I would say they seem quite equal, depending on your skills.

What I really was curious on was whether a Power Hammer with high CL could cause the power bit to bump more than one step at a time. It could not, meaning that the CL of items are different from looted CL 80 to crafted CL 80.

If the bump is still just one point, then you will loose out on resources.

The CL on items do not have an impact on your fortune as such, not as far as I am aware. Good try though, kudos for that :)

/Zimoon

jt26077
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by jt26077 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:39 pm

Zimoon wrote:I would say they seem quite equal, depending on your skills.

What I really was curious on was whether a Power Hammer with high CL could cause the power bit to bump more than one step at a time. It could not, meaning that the CL of items are different from looted CL 80 to crafted CL 80.

If the bump is still just one point, then you will loose out on resources.

The CL on items do not have an impact on your fortune as such, not as far as I am aware. Good try though, kudos for that :)

/Zimoon
I was beginning to think the same thing, but decided to test my current skill level with a crate of shoes and my results we quite a bit worse than when using the Power Hammers. I didnt have enough test materials to see the power bit all the way to +35 since I only had 2 crates, but it may have been enough of a test to see a pattern. Here is what I got:

Bit 1 using Casual Shoes
Attempt# Result
1-4, 26 (No change)
5, 27 (+1)
6-15, 27 (No change)
16, 28 (+1)
17-26, 28 (No change)
27, 29 (+1)
28-35, 29 (No change)
36, 30 (+1)
37-50, 30 (No change)

Admittedly, this was a smaller test that my previous one but as you can see it took far more attempts with shoes to raise the power bit to +30 than it did using Power Hammers. Here is a bit of a break down to sort of summarize thus far...

RE Chance: 134
Luck: 226

50 Attempts using shoes
4 points gained
12.5:1 Attempt/Point Ratio

59 Attempts using Power Hammers
17 points gained across 3 separate power bit runs
3.4:1 Attempt/Point Ratio

If someone out there has a better RE and Luck stat and is willing to run through some of these tests Id be curious to see how their results compared to these, but I wouldnt be surprised if there was some sort of diminishing returns formula to all this. If not I'll be spending some time in the following week, so I should be able to get my Luck and RE up to more respectable numbers.

ThorCorp
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by ThorCorp » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:20 am

I have been Re'n since it was on test center.I re with a tailor and resource cost is at a minimum(16 fiberplast,4 steel)I use simple shirts and being a tailor resource quality doesnt matter for these.As far as bumps.I usually use bits 20 and above.I have yet to have a problem taking bits from 20 to 31 with it taking more than one bump per point.Once at 32 it does seem to skip a couple of bumps before it does continue to 35.My re chance is 156(pups of 100 and my luck runs sbout 800 with food and outfit.Not sure if this helps any but thought i would throw my 2 cents in. :)

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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Kirneh » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:14 pm

Has anyone with a full RE-suit and luck >800 tested this meanwhile?
Unfortunately I do not have a DE to test it with power hammers.
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Saamm
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Re: Possible observation while making power bits?

Post by Saamm » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:34 pm

I had a go at this and have made the basic evaluation that, for a fully set up RE'er, with suit food, buff etc and a good starting point +24 loot it will make little difference and really just wastes valuble rescources (I use alot of Kam Iron) BUT an upcomming re-er who I know also tried this out, he has an equal suit to mine but lacks the food and higher end loot, he uses +21's and found it to be beter, so really it depends on who you are, I recommend getting 100 and seeing who much it benifits you before rushing to a WS and ordering a few thousand.
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