Do you have to cap everything?

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Swedishoyster
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Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Swedishoyster » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:04 pm

After a few days of weaponsmithing I'm slowly upping my dps on my guns and now to increase my dps I really must go buy the really really expensive stuff 300cpu or more.

I understand that cores are the most critical part to cap and that you need to get all experiments as amazings to truly cap a weapon. What I do wonder about is the sub parts, is it like in armoursmithing where you don't HAVE to cap your segments? I mean you can get by with a 95% segment and 95% core as an armoursmith, the final craft will still get you capped armour. Or does every single subpart have to be 100% capped? I get 89-95% on my sub parts now and for an armoursmith that would have been enough.

If every subpart must be 100% capped that means every single resource must be 960 average right? (weighted by ther caps ofc)

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Monty Burns
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Monty Burns » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:19 am

Well I am not quite sure what answer you are after here but I know that I have never produced a capped weapon without using capped subcomponents.

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Swedishoyster
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Swedishoyster » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:09 pm

I think that answer it, what you say is that to make a 100% capped weapon all the sub components must be 100% capped as well. Meaning server best resources not only on cores but on stock and scopes etc as well?

That differs hugely from Armoursmith who can use 95% segments and 95% cores and still get guaranteed 100% capped armours every time.

Already capped my scopes and stocks now btw and have 1000 of each brewing in factories :-)
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Monty Burns
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Monty Burns » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:28 pm

Swedishoyster wrote:I think that answer it, what you say is that to make a 100% capped weapon all the sub components must be 100% capped as well. Meaning server best resources not only on cores but on stock and scopes etc as well?

That differs hugely from Armoursmith who can use 95% segments and 95% cores and still get guaranteed 100% capped armours every time.

Already capped my scopes and stocks now btw and have 1000 of each brewing in factories :-)
Must be nice to be on a server with decent resource spawns, I just got a Carbonite Steel that will cap cores and it is the first to spawn on the server in 6 years, I also have other materials which have spawned (at cap) for the second time since the server came up.

Sadly Sunrunner seems to be last in line for good materials, however it is the same for everyone so I really shouldn't complain.

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'Mati'
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by 'Mati' » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:58 pm

Swedishoyster wrote:After a few days of weaponsmithing I'm slowly upping my dps on my guns and now to increase my dps I really must go buy the really really expensive stuff 300cpu or more.

I just want to make a comment on this post.

I use to contribute to this site. I shared every entire surveyed resource I found with this site and this is a great site, dont get me wrong. However as Swedishoyster said "...I really must go buy the really really expensive stuff 300cpu or more."

This is exactly the reason why I no longer contribute to swgcraft.org. On the server I play on, Gorath, there are scalpers I know of, selling just 100 units of resources for 200000 credits and they actually justify it and admittedly say they use this site. So if I understand this correctly they rely on this site to be able to make players pay their ridiculous prices. hmmm??

This is the sole reason why I stopped contributing to swgcraft.org and created my own private system of surveyed resources. I no longer share any finds because I refuse to help "scalpers" out there so they can make as much credits as possible off the actual contributing players efforts, only to turn around and more than likely sell those credits for real money.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

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Zimoon
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Zimoon » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:21 pm

'Mati' wrote:
Swedishoyster wrote:After a few days of weaponsmithing I'm slowly upping my dps on my guns and now to increase my dps I really must go buy the really really expensive stuff 300cpu or more.

I just want to make a comment on this post.

I use to contribute to this site. I shared every entire surveyed resource I found with this site and this is a great site, dont get me wrong. However as Swedishoyster said "...I really must go buy the really really expensive stuff 300cpu or more."

This is exactly the reason why I no longer contribute to swgcraft.org. On the server I play on, Gorath, there are scalpers I know of, selling just 100 units of resources for 200000 credits and they actually justify it and admittedly say they use this site. So if I understand this correctly they rely on this site to be able to make players pay their ridiculous prices. hmmm??

This is the sole reason why I stopped contributing to swgcraft.org and created my own private system of surveyed resources. I no longer share any finds because I refuse to help "scalpers" out there so they can make as much credits as possible off the actual contributing players efforts, only to turn around and more than likely sell those credits for real money.

Thats my 2 cents worth.
I do not like "scalpers" anymore than you do --- but I fail to see your logic?
Indeed you help them by not updating this site. How?
Because then any newbie has no clue whatsoever what and how to go on --- so they end up paying these "scalpers" these ridiculous money.

If players find information here they can help themselves to grab the resources when it's around.
The "scalpers" will do that too of course, but also the more sensible players who no longer has to dance for the "scalpers".

After all, in SWG there is a market that builds on supply & demand.
I believe one problem is that crafters that has been around a while does not willingly sell out their best stock.
Resource miners//brokers are not as common as they once were, they exist but either resellers buy them out or...
Another issue is that some people buy these 30k kits for server-best resource, split them and sell them in small lots, and my math says me that if you buy something for 30 mill which contains 30 k it will be 1000 CPU, if they find cheaper kits the lots are cheaper but I doubt you will see them lower than 300 CPU.

None of this has anything to do with SWGCraft. On the contrary.
IMHO you rather help the "scalpers" a lot, way more than you imagine.
That is since newbies and others do not get information about new resources and/or what server-best is.
If information is free and available it is harder to fool people in business. You hide and cover information.

Again, the actions of these sad persons have nothing to with SWGCraft. Except in one respect...
They can see the information and get out their harvies and suck up the gold.
Hopefully half of Gorath is there and do the same and then, supply is bigger than demand, is it not?


Now, if anything in what I wrote is wrong or if I have completely missed the point somewhere I am all ears. But then I will also split this thread into a new one for that topic, ok?

Cheers
Zimoon


BTW: Welcome to the forum and congrats to your first post :)



PS: If you are talking about "Jedi-resources" then you must also remember that that market is skewed because combateers (incl Jedi) are filthy rich and buy these small amounts of saber resources for their pocket money. There is a supply and there is a demand, just that the buyer don't care about the credits.

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Monty Burns
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Monty Burns » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:41 pm

I generally combat scalpers by sending out information about good spawns to the crafters I know and reporting it to the server over the "Galaxy Chat" channel, I also sell some of it by putting a small block on a vendor at a high price with the note that I will negotiate the price with any one interested (including lowbies).

There are ways to combat scalpers but I think that not reporting materials actually plays into their hands while putting the servers crafters at a disadvantage.

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Savacc
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Savacc » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:08 pm

People who have played this game for a long time (like me) have a huge advantage over newcomers. All of those "Server Best" resources that spawned years and years ago, I was here and able to harvest them for next to nothing. The fact that I may have learned of the resource here at SWGCraft doesnt change the fact that my advantage wasnt SWGCraft, it was that I was playing that long ago. When a new "Server Best" resource spawns, SWGCraft levels the playing field, because now everyone can go get that resource, not just us Old Timers.

SWGCraft just reports the resources. We dont set prices. We dont suggest prices. We dont sell resources nor facilitate the sale of resources. I dont understand why you could think we are the bad guys here.

On a personal note, I never sell resources. I hoard them. Those resources are too valuable to me to sell for mere credits. I use resources to make things to sell. It is true that in most cases, I could have sold the resources and made more credits then my crafted items sold for. But that is not what I am in this game to do. I have a true Crafter's Heart. I want to make useful items and provide a service to other players in the game. Resource sellers do provide a service, but it wouldnt be enough for me. I need more. I need more involvement and a bigger commitment of myself to get the satisfaction and accomplishment I desire from Crafting in this game.

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Zimoon
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Zimoon » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:36 pm

I was afraid I had misinterpreted or misunderstood something but reading MB and S it seems I did not.

However, to a degree I can understand a frustration when you see how today's resource market sometimes looks like. But do not let your frustration and anger over some players confuse you and blur your mind to discard and miscredit SWGCraft, not even before yourself.

Let me elaborate, there are a many, many types of players.

Like Savacc many traders never sell their precious resources. In a way they are as bad, that is if helping newbies is a requirement to be deemed a nice guy. But nobody ever dream of that accusation, even though they also utilize SWGCraft and get filthy rich.

Like myself some traders sell inferior resources when something better replaces the stock. We hardly asks for 300 CPU but on the other hand ... personally I price quite high but welcome an in-game trade. Some of these resources are good and if they do not sell I make use of them, perhaps.

There are traders that craft HQ stuff for sale but also sell HQ resources. Why they do that is somewhat beyond me. If it is "Jedi-resources" it explains a lot and then the 100 units for 300 CPU of some server-best that is from years ago is actually a much better deal for the Jedi than to buy several 30k kits just to use a slice of each.

Also for WS-resources it is not exactly a bad deal, determined by the use. Assume you need 85 units of something you do not have, then again 300 CPU for a 100 unit lot is just peanuts compared with a full 30k resource kit. Certainly so if you consider the CPU you usually sell a final firearm for.

However, if you must pay that much for a factory run of some component, then ... . In either case, your profit does not really make you cry, I never see weapons sell for less than a few hundreds CPU so... But of course it hurts for a poor, almost broke novice trader when he is shopping.

In fact there are many many types of traders, resource brokers, resellers, and whoever. All of these, good and bad, high and low, noble and scum, the Emperor and Yoda, all can make good use of SWGCraft. This site is completely neutral (perhaps not, I would probably ban Darth Vader). That characteristic of the site is the best thing, resource informations is completely free, as well newbies as veterans alike read when there is something new about or what is server-best of some resource class.

Veterans or the low-level organisms you talk about will find this information anyway. And continue to have the upper hand over newbies.

One way is to come forward with information that break bad behavior. And that is why I support this site and why I defend this community.

I started playing at Gorath and stayed there until 1½ year ago. Considering today's low population there I can imagine the market is not optimal for a decent resource shopping tour, it is likely the demand is way higher than supply which could explain a lot.

But the important thing is to keep apart cause and action, and SWGCraft is definitely not a cause for some players gaming actions. On the contrary, SWGCraft helps many newbies get going the quicker.

Thus, I belive your feelings confused your mind to rashly come to a conclusion about SWGCraft that does not make sense when you think it through again.

Greetings
Zimoon

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Savacc
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Savacc » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:10 am

Zimoon wrote: Like Savacc many traders never sell their precious resources. In a way they are as bad, that is if helping newbies is a requirement to be deemed a nice guy. But nobody ever dream of that accusation, even though they also utilize SWGCraft and get filthy rich.
Zimoon
Well, Z, I dont sell resources, but I give them away, I hope that makes me a nice guy :D. Actually I have sold some, to people who ask if I have a certain resource and then refuse to take it for free and insist on paying me. I try to arrange a trade of goods other then credits, but there were times when credits is all they had or were willing to give. I would have been happier to give the resources away. Taking credits for resources makes me feel dirty. You can not force people to take something in this game. I can open the trade window, put my resources up and click accept before they add anything, but when they put credits in I have to either accept or cancel and accepting seems the more polite thing to do.

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'Mati'
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by 'Mati' » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:12 am

Thank you Zimoon on welcoming me to the forums as well as on my first post.

PS: Please keep all of Gorath resources updated to help keep the scalpers to a minimum. Thank you. :D

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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:36 am

'Mati' wrote:Thank you Zimoon on welcoming me to the forums as well as on my first post.

PS: Please keep all of Gorath resources updated to help keep the scalpers to a minimum. Thank you. :D
You are welcome :)
I left Gorath 1½ years ago, friends had dropped off and I found them again at Chmaera. Still visiting with an old toon but I am not happy to see what to be a well populated galaxy in its current shape :(

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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Zimoon » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:38 am

Savacc wrote:
Zimoon wrote: Like Savacc many traders never sell their precious resources. In a way they are as bad, that is if helping newbies is a requirement to be deemed a nice guy. But nobody ever dream of that accusation, even though they also utilize SWGCraft and get filthy rich.
Zimoon
Well, Z, I dont sell resources, but I give them away, I hope that makes me a nice guy :D. Actually I have sold some, to people who ask if I have a certain resource and then refuse to take it for free and insist on paying me. I try to arrange a trade of goods other then credits, but there were times when credits is all they had or were willing to give. I would have been happier to give the resources away. Taking credits for resources makes me feel dirty. You can not force people to take something in this game. I can open the trade window, put my resources up and click accept before they add anything, but when they put credits in I have to either accept or cancel and accepting seems the more polite thing to do.
I know you are a nice guy, I just tried to get a point across :P
Me too give away more than I ever sale as inferior :D

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Swedishoyster
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by Swedishoyster » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:58 am

Whoa, look what my thread turtned into...

Anyway, to continue this thread as it was orginally intended to, I've now came a long way as WS and can actually cap a gun or two.
I've however came to realize that in contrast to AS (Primus layer being the exception) ALL resources must at all time be +96% average to be able to "cap" (Savacc loves that expression) a gun.
Also that no matter what the price, people are just not interested in a non capped weapon, if you want to be a WS you just *have* to cap every single part.

However after an outburst in our guild chat over a wellknown WS on Chimaera that didn't manage to cap his weapon in 4 tries i decided I do NOT want to be an arms dealer and handle that kind of customers.

So I found a niche...

I rumouraged around in my inventories until I found some *server best* resources I had a good stock of, then bought the rest of resources from the bazaar (some was WAY over 300 cpu) and finally had to resort to use up one or two Crates of free resources (12mil landing those on 400 cpu).

Then I made factory runs on all subparts like stock, scopes, barrels and gas, put them in the vendors in packs of 5 for a price of 1000 cpu. My highest cost is 400 cpu and averaging around ~100 cpu if I count my "own" resources at 1 cpu. This was an experiment but has actually turned out to be quite profitable, and I don't see myself as a "scalper" as I don't just re-sell resources, I enhance them into wares, I also have to pay A LOT of money, and some of the stuff took A LOT of failed experimentations and I've gotten only nice responses from my customers, about evenly spaced between other WS and people wanting a new gun and suppling all the parts.

If more people used swgcraft, there would be more *great* resources gathered on the server, thus making the supply *higher*, that will always lower the prices in a free economy, but not necessarily the profit margins for the end trader (the WS, BM or whatever). Everybody wins except those that just extract that resource for less than 1 cpu cost and resell it for 1200 cpu (yes they do).

anyway, I moved on to BM, an even more insane market than ws lol.
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DeathTrooper
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Re: Do you have to cap everything?

Post by DeathTrooper » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:32 am

Swedishoyster wrote:Also that no matter what the price, people are just not interested in a non capped weapon, if you want to be a WS you just *have* to cap every single part.
I did make 2mil in tips one week giving away "free" weapons, the only real money I made in a while. I did not ask for anything, but I never turn down a tip. I don't sell to "enemy" faction players, just to keep the game interested to me, so I don't sell on vendors. I can't imagine getting rich doing honest work, at least not my lazy version of it. I look at it more as the credits I save being a crafter than the credits I earn. I did price some resources for ship weapons, inert gas and carbonate ore, and the best deals were 20k of gas for 400k credits and 20k ore for 700k credits. I just could not bring myself to buy them, even though they would have improved my blasters. If money wasn't an issue, I'd happily buy the best stuff when it's available, and if I did that I guess money may no longer be an issue, but I'm not a good salesperson so I'd probably just end up broke.

As a weaponsmith, I definitely agree that everything has to be capped to make a capped weapon. The slightest lackings in scope or stock resources will drag down the final dps, even if the core and elementals are good. I'm happy to get 1300+ dps on heavies and 1100 for small arms, but like you said there's no real market for 90-95% unless it's lower level weapons for CL80ish players. As soon as you can make them better than the loot weapons (like vexa flachetta, jawa ion pistol, lava cannon) they have some value, but once the player hits 90 they won't spend much on non-capped weapons. Weaponsmith can contribute pretty much nothing of value between levels 1-74. The CL25 Borvo gun and CL56 Jawa Ion Pistol put anything I make in that range to shame.

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