Primus layers

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redwhitenblue
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Primus layers

Post by redwhitenblue » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:58 am

I have a guildy who just started armorsmith and is having difficulty capping her primus layers. We've gone over her resources, she's getting multiple amazing successes and finishes at 100% but they are only 49 not 50. She can cap the armor without the layers but only gets 6595 using those layers. I got her list of resources and the lowest stat would be the nuetronium steel which I saw is capped at 765 anyway. I also made sure she has resource refinement in her expertise. Any clue what's going on??

Here are her resources, all Flurry except for the polymer:

Perovskitic aluminum, Carbiciperis, 990 OQ 993 SR
Vintrium extrusive ore, Fepipiam, 998 OQ 945 SR
Neutronium steel, Ivawi, 997 OQ 742 SR
Gravitonic fiberplast, Srifa, 982 OQ 971 SR
Polymer, (Naritus) Thiboenide, 960 OQ 978 SR
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Paria
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Paria » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:17 am

Yes Neutronium Steel is capped, 983 "consider caps".
Perhaps resources for segments and/or cores are not capped?
Arnh Stardust (Armorsmith or Shipwright) & Mamaria (Droids and Beasts crafter) in ORION on Lok (Chimaera server).

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Zimoon
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Zimoon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:37 pm

I see the Ore is also low on SR, just 945. I cannot do the math right now but has a feeling it shouldn't matter as all the rest is so high, anybody else have to chime in an do the full math for a properly weighed average result. And 742 of 765 is 96.99% so you shouldn't have any problems there.

Have you run all the values through the formula described in the Beginners Guide? What was the end result?

What is the result after the assembly? 29%?

/Zimoon

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Paria
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Paria » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:38 pm

I read in the notes of a recent patch that crafting tools and station will have an real influence now.
Can you check that she is using quality 15 tools and a quality 45 station?
Probably yes but better safe than sorry :wink:

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Zimoon
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Zimoon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:00 pm

Paria wrote:I read in the notes of a recent patch that crafting tools and station will have an real influence now.
Can you check that she is using quality 15 tools and a quality 45 station?
Probably yes but better safe than sorry :wink:
I understand that benefit to affect the amazing/greats. If it should have an influence on stats and moving the 960 + refinery-bonus that is news to me. Not negating your "better safe than sorry though" ;)

But I should start running the values through a spread-sheets that takes units each slot into the picture.

/Zimoon

redwhitenblue
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Re: Primus layers

Post by redwhitenblue » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:55 pm

She couldn't remember what the assembly was but guessed 29% without me suggesting it so I'm pretty sure that's what she got. And I would assume that her tool and station is capped although I will ask about that. I would do the math myself but never understood how the math worked with a resource that caps below 1000. Thanks for all your help!
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Zimoon
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Zimoon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:43 pm

redwhitenblue wrote:She couldn't remember what the assembly was but guessed 29% without me suggesting it so I'm pretty sure that's what she got. And I would assume that her tool and station is capped although I will ask about that. I would do the math myself but never understood how the math worked with a resource that caps below 1000. Thanks for all your help!
I read the past tense and hope you do better now :mrgreen:
If not, any capped resource is handled such as

Code: Select all

adjusted_value = 1000/cap * value
It is all described in chapter 8 in the Beginners Guide, read the example carefully, it is the same two resources used in all cases so it should become crystal clear how it works.

Usually it is not the cap that makes people shiver (except the one that the schematics determines which of several possible caps to use) but it is the weighed average. In short, for an accurate number you must look at all slots for the schematics at once and not one by one. And that is what I tried my best to illuminate by the several examples, even though they of course are a lot simplified and just use two resources. Just yell again if you need it all laid out, tomorrow I might have more time at work 8)

/Zimoon

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Savacc
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Savacc » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:23 pm

Paria wrote:Yes Neutronium Steel is capped, 983 "consider caps".
Perhaps resources for segments and/or cores are not capped?
Im getting a different result then Paria did. The cap for SR on Neutronium Steel is 765. A Neutronium with 742 would be adjusted to 969. So how did Paria come up with 983?

Doing long math calculations is not my idea of fun. Didnt someone write "Armorsmith's Little Helper" to do it for us?

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Zimoon
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Zimoon » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:39 pm

Savacc wrote:
Paria wrote:Yes Neutronium Steel is capped, 983 "consider caps".
Perhaps resources for segments and/or cores are not capped?
Im getting a different result then Paria did. The cap for SR on Neutronium Steel is 765. A Neutronium with 742 would be adjusted to 969. So how did Paria come up with 983?

Doing long math calculations is not my idea of fun. Didnt someone write "Armorsmith's Little Helper" to do it for us?
Paria included OQ and to 50/50 for OQ and SR:
(1000/765*742 + 997) / 2 = 983

I think there is something like that and I know, I know, SWGAide does not .................................. yet 8)

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Paria
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Paria » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:06 am

So how did Paria come up with 983?
I didn't do any math but just used SWGCraft to make a Find Resource with the following parameters:
. Names = "Ivawi"
. Class = "Neutronium Steel"
. Server = "Flurry"
. Consider Caps? Yes
. Overall Quality = 50
. Shock Resistance = 50

Imperial Outpost
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Imperial Outpost » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:26 pm

Ran it through on traderswg.com and it's would appear that it's the Fepipiam ore letting you down...

Image

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Savacc
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Savacc » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:21 pm

Paria wrote:
So how did Paria come up with 983?
I didn't do any math but just used SWGCraft to make a Find Resource with the following parameters:
. Names = "Ivawi"
. Class = "Neutronium Steel"
. Server = "Flurry"
. Consider Caps? Yes
. Overall Quality = 50
. Shock Resistance = 50
Ok, I see that now. If I had thought about it a bit more I would have realized that is what you were doing. :oops:

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Savacc
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Savacc » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:41 pm

Imperial Outpost wrote:Ran it through on traderswg.com and it's would appear that it's the Fepipiam ore letting you down...

Image
I have not used your program, Imperial. I notice that on your display, you add the +40 bonus for Expertise to each resource. I can understand why someone might think it would be helpful to do that, so the user can get a visual clue as to why a resource is not good enough. Just so you know, the game does not do it that way. Actually, Imperial, I know you have been around a long time, and I would bet the farm that you do know. :D So to review for others, the game takes the raw stats, without the +40 resource bonus, averages them, weighs for amounts, adjusts for caps and comes up with a final number. Then the +40 is added to that final result. Just to restate, the +40 bonus is added once, at the end, not to each individual resource stat.

redwhitenblue
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Re: Primus layers

Post by redwhitenblue » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:09 pm

Ok I *think* I undertand now. I got some scratch paper and my phone (couldn't find that scientific calculator anywhere) and did all the math myself. (Can someone say server shut down? :| ) I am not gonna show my work cuz that would be messy but I came up with 101.75555%. Does that sound right?
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Zimoon
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Re: Primus layers

Post by Zimoon » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:56 pm

I put it in a spreadsheet which churned out 978,59 which +40 becomes 1018,59. That is capped with some margin.

I wonder what is going on here. Does she really have full expertise in resource refinery, or is she missing 2 points?

The math is, for anyone reading this thread and wonders:

Code: Select all

OQ:
997*25 + 960*14 + 982*14 + 998*16 + 990*12
------------------------------------------  * 0.5
   25  +   14   +    14  +   16   +   12

SR (first compensate the cap for steel (1000/765*742=969.93):

969.93*25 + 978*14 + 971*14 + 945*16 + 993*12
--------------------------------------------- * 0.5
      25  +   14   +    14  +   16   +   12

OQ + SR = 978.59 + 40 = 1018.59
So the only thing I can think of is 2 missing points in refinery so she only has +20 (or 2% in SOE lingo).

/Zimoon

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